Read The Transcript Of The Episode:

Speaker 1:

This is the Ultimate Advisor Podcast, the podcast for financial advisors who want to create a thriving, successful, and scalable practice. Each week, we'll uncover the ways that you can improve your referrals, your team, your marketing, and your business operations. Helping you to level up your advising practice, bring in more assets and create the advising practice that you've dreamed of. You'll be joined by your hosts Bryan Sweet, who has more than half a billion dollars in assets under management, Brittany Anderson the driving force for advisors looking to hire, improve their operations and company culture. And Draye Redfern, who can help you systematize and automate your practices marketing to effortlessly attract new clients. So, what do you say? Let's jump into another amazing episode of The Ultimate Advisor Podcast.

Brittany Anderson:

Hello, and welcome back to your Ultimate Advisor Podcast. This is Brittany Anderson. And with me today, I have a different gentleman than what you're used to. I have with me, our special guest, Mr. Bill Cates. He is the original Referral Coach. And what some may not know about Bill is he's got a whole bunch of stuff on the docket and some really exciting things that he's going to be sharing. So if you've been in this industry for a while now, you are familiar with Bill. If you're not, you need to be. He has amazing content, amazing methodologies and things to really help you grow your business as long as you're willing to do the work and follow his advice. So Bill, thank you for being here today.

Bill Cates:

Well, thank you, Brittany. And you made me think, the original referral coach, it's like the original Coke, the original Kentucky Fried Chicken recipe. I guess I'm in that category of the original something.

Brittany Anderson:

I mean, if we're going to ... we're talking chicken now, I like it.

Bill Cates:

Fried chicken and Coke, guys. You could do worse.

Brittany Anderson:

I mean, it is around lunchtime, right?

Bill Cates:

Yes, ma'am.

Brittany Anderson:

Well, you've got some really exciting things, you've really been known for your referral process, but there are a couple of things that I want to talk about with you today that's new, that's fresh, that's exciting. So you have a book, you have a book that you wrote that's called Beyond Referrals. It got some rave reviews. Some of you may have read it if you're listening, if not, again, you need to check it out. It's an absolute must for your business. But much like your Get More Referrals Now! And Don't Keep Me a Secret, your first two books. It was a lot like that. So why do you think that your books are just getting such rave reviews? I just think that's huge and it's powerful. And we talk about writing books a lot. So I want to hear a little bit more about that and why you think it's really hitting home for people.

Bill Cates:

Yeah. I think it's a few things. I think, first of all, the topic of referrals and getting introduced and that's what Beyond Referrals does, it goes beyond the referral, because these days we have to get introduced, we have to get connected. And actually when I was writing that, I realized that, and this is true for anybody, when you solve a problem, when you help someone with a specific issue and you help them move forward, sometimes a new issue comes forward. And that's great. Because folks like us, we were always trying to solve more problems.

 And so, what was happening is people, initially, when I first got started, I was teaching people how to ask for referrals and some were having some great success, but some weren't, because they weren't referable in the first place. And so we had to focus on client engagement and let's make sure you're referable. And by the way, one barometer of one's referability is that you're getting unsolicited referrals or introductions. That's gives you a hint that you're moving in the right direction. And then of course the do not call regulations come through and all the various ways, it just becomes so hard to reach people. 

 That's when we really started to focus on the introductions. And so Beyond Referrals takes it, we talk a little bit about getting referrals, but then how to turn that referral into an introduction? And then how do we set the appointment with that new prospect? And what I found is people would get referrals, even get introduced, but they wouldn't use that borrowed trust. They wouldn't use all the dynamics that come from that in their approach to new prospects. They just revert to a generic approach, when they have all this opportunity, the knowledge that the referral source has about the prospect, et cetera.

 And then ultimately, of course, you want to get a new client. So referrals are just a means to an end. They're not the end. The end is of course the new client. Maybe there really is no end, because then you want to start to get referrals from that new client, don't you? So that's what Beyond Referrals was about, is not just the referral, but getting introduced, getting the appointment, getting a new client and keeping that going as a cycle.

Brittany Anderson:

Personally, Bill, I really love the fact that beyond referrals, it doesn't abandon the how to get referrals component. Rather, it goes further than that. So, you alluded to having that full loop closed in the process and making sure that you're not missing a beat. So why do you think that's so important?

Bill Cates:

Well, because what you don't want to do is just bring in a new client and then have it stopped there and wonder where the next one's going to come from. So here's the way I liken it. I liken it to playing pool. So you play pool, you know where I'm headed with this. I got the cue ball aimed at the four ball into the side pocket, trying to make the shot. But there's a parallel thought process going on. I'm also thinking of the next shot, in pool they call it the leave, and we want to leave the cue ball in position for the next shot. Well, I believe that needs to be our attitude towards client acquisition.

 We bring a prospect into our world, however we do it. They become a client. We make the shot, that's good, that counts, but where's the next one going to come from? And without having a process in place, then we don't know, we're left with wishing and hoping. And that's not a good strategy. And I often joke in my live presentations that we need to turn that referral wishbone into referral backbone. So here's a way to think about it. I want to give you three words, engagement, leverage, and connection. And these three words will create that continual flow.

 So what we know is that there's a low correlation between client satisfaction and the actual giving of referrals. It's satisfied clients are happy, they stay with us. But in one study I saw out of Canada, only 20% actually gave referrals. So what we need to create is engaged clients. And by an engaged client, I mean, someone has engaged with our value. They appreciate the questions we ask. They appreciate the things we teach. They appreciate the involvement of our staff and responsive service and all of that. But then there's also the personal connection and how we connect with them a little bit on a personal way. And when we create that sense of engagement, we're becoming referable, and then we need to leverage that, which is being proactive.

 It could be promoting introductions, or it could be asking for introductions. And I know over the course of our interviews, we'll talk about that. And then get connected, get introduced. So we got to get introduced. Once we do that, and we create that new engagement with that new person, that feeling of engagement, guess what? Leverage, connection, engagement, leverage connection. And I have a slide where it just continues to spin and you really can create a continuous flow of good quality, right quality clients, if you follow these words of engagement, leverage, and connection.

Brittany Anderson:

I think one of the favorite things I've heard you talk about, I've heard you say this before is moving a client from being satisfied to engaged. I think there's so much power to that. So, in your book, you refer to that as the perpetual revenue system. And I think that's something that, as people are going through it, that they need to highlight, they need to circle back to, and they need to revisit time and time again, because it is so important. I mean, I can tell you for us at Sweet Financial, I mean, that process alone has absolutely helped us to create raving fans, to create people that are engaged and not just satisfied. So I think that's something that they just need to highlight and we need to pay special attention to.

Bill Cates:

And two things about that, if you don't mind, first of all, having that process, I can't tell you the folks that come to me for our coaching programs from time to time, mostly successful folks are doing very well. They're getting unsolicited referrals. They sometimes almost feel guilty that they're not being proactive. They're not asking in the appropriate way to get introduced. And it's because they don't have a process or they had it and worked so well they stopped using it. They abandoned it. Some folks were trained away when they first got started, but then realized that wasn't for them and never found the right process for them.

 So a lot of it is just having that repeatable process that you keep alive. We just had a guy sign up for our coaching, who was at our boot camp several years ago. We've stopped doing the bootcamp for a while, but he says, "Bill, I need to refresher. I need to just immerse myself in the process again. I've got two associates now, I want to make sure they get the process as well."

 And then you also mentioned this concept of advocates. So I was working with a group once and I said, "The highest level is advocacy, when people advocate for us and I don't just mean centers of influence. They could be actual clients." And he says, "So advocates, are they like born? Is it in their DNA to be an advocate? Or is this something we can nurture and create in our business?" And my answer was a resounding yes. Some people are born that way, that they just like to make connections when they find something they like, they want to share it with the world. That's nice. We love those people.

 And then the thing about advocates is not only do they share us with others and they advocate for us, but they want to make sure the connection goes through, they're actually paying attention. They, "Did you call my friend?" Or they call the friend, "Did you call my advisor?" They really make sure that happens. And then there's other folks where we can create that advocacy over time. And again, that's engagement, but a little bit on steroids. And I'll tell you the secret sauce in creating advocates is the business friendship.

 When you can create that relationship, that just goes beyond the core work that you do. And you really just genuinely care about each other and you get, you talk about the kids, you talk about the hobbies, you talk about the sports, you talk about whatever, and you always have something to talk about and you have an hour review meeting, you spend 10 minutes on your portfolio and 15 minutes on everything else. That's the business friendship. And those are the people that become advocates.

 And so using client appreciation events, as I know you guys do, and those types of things, that's what creates that advocacy. And so we don't want to miss that opportunity.

Brittany Anderson:

And when you say, Bill, it's fair to say that the majority of people are not born as advocates. So as much as we'd like to just sit and wait for people to just follow up and push, and herd people our way, it's just not as likely. So I think doing [crosstalk 00:11:29].

Bill Cates:

That's right.

Brittany Anderson:

... and paying attention to what Bill says and his whole methodology is just absolutely so important. Bill. I don't want to forget this. So I have to say, I hear that you have a free e-guide that you're offering to our listeners. So how can we go about getting that free guide so that I don't forget to bring it up?

Bill Cates:

Sure. Well, I'll give you the guide name and how to get, and then I'll tell you what it's about. So the URL is exponentialgrowthguide.com, exponentialgrowthguide.com. So what do I mean by exponential growth? Well, here's what I've learned. Serving the heck out of your clients, as you should be doing, will create incremental growth. People stay with you, they'll tell others from time to time and you're going to grow. Anybody doing a great job, it's going to have to grow, but it's incremental growth.

 So to create exponential growth in terms of client acquisition, we have to think of being proactive. We have to think about how do we ask for introductions in a way that fits, that's not needy, it's not pushy. And so what happens is when you create these clients who are willing to do this, then one leads to two and two to four and four to eight and you grow exponentially.

 And a lot of advisors keep track of that. They keep track of the family trees, if you will, that grow from, "This person referred me to these two and these two referred me to these." And so on and so on. And so they'll even go back to the original referral source and say, "George, I don't think you realize how influential you are and how many people you've actually helped. People you don't even know." And they go, "Well, what do you mean?" And then they explain and they lay it out without violating confidences, of course.

 And some people actually have parties, events, client appreciation events, or everyone at the event is part of that family tree, if you will, everyone was there because they either gave a referral or were referred, but not just in general, not just in a general ambassador program, but they were all part of that lineage that got created by that first initial referral. And a lot of times they know each other and then don't know each other and they see the power of that. And this is what I'm talking about around exponential growth.

Brittany Anderson:

I think that's really powerful. And the thing that kept popping in my head as you were talking, Bill, is we talk about this in our messaging strategy that if you're not communicating and let's just talk about advocates. If you're not communicating the value that you can provide to the people that they love and care about, you're actually doing those people a disservice. So you don't want to keep it a secret. And that's the whole point in creating advocates and following Bill's system, is so that you do have a repeatable process. And I want to circle back on your Perpetual Revenue System, because I think there's a lot too there. But the thing that I want to say is that, as in anything, any process that you have in your business, anything new you're trying to introduce, don't just do it once and then be like, "Well, I didn't get much result from that. So I got to move on to the next thing." Really go deep on this.

 And Bill, I think you just bring up so many valid points in the fact that it's like you have trees, you have things that evolve from this and people you continue to help. And you have these advocacy type events where you're just building that referability, I think there's so much power to it. Just don't give up, keep going, keep trying it. And if it's not working immediately, tweak your system, tweak your methodology and keep moving forward.

Bill Cates:

Yeah. People say, "I tried that." Whatever strategy, events, "It didn't work for me." Well, does that mean it's a flawed strategy? No, probably not. Because you see a hundred other people making it work for them. So maybe the way you worked it didn't work and maybe there's a way to fine tune it and make it work for you. And look, yeah, it's possible that you have a practice made up of people who are antisocial. We do tend to attract the people like us. So I don't know what that says about you. But no, seriously, you have to try it. You have to tweak it. And so I remember we had a bootcamp, we had a bunch of folks from the same firm were there and there was one guy, James, who just kills it with the stuff I teach. He's just ... everything I teach, he does it, it works. It's just, he's like a natural and he does it.

 So when I was talking, I was using him as a bit of a role model for these folks. They're saying, "Yeah, but that's James." And I go, "Well, yeah. So what are you saying?" "Well, he can do that." I say, "Well, that means you can do it. Now, maybe you don't do it the way he's doing it. Maybe the words you use will be a little different. Maybe the timing will be a little different, but it's doesn't mean the strategy is flawed. You just have to find a way to make it work for you." So that's the beauty of doing podcasts like this and sharing other best practices that people are doing, because it gives us a sense of what's working. And if it's working for one person, it may be working for a hundred people or a thousand people. And it could probably work for you if you just figured out how to make it work for you.

Brittany Anderson:

That was so good. So, Bill, there's an excerpt in your book that I want to touch on it's from Beyond Referrals. And you say that, "One great way to get referrals without even asking for them is conducting value discussions with clients on a regular basis." So what are they? And why do they lead to referrals without asking? I got to hear more on this.

Bill Cates:

Well, it leads to referral, it's called a value discussion, you're right, and it leads to more referrals or introductions. By the way, real quick, a caveat here. You hear me using referrals, introductions, this is a for internal use only conversation, if you will, when you're with prospects or clients or centers of influence, use the word introductions. Because that's what you want. So you make sure you use those words, but here we can [inaudible 00:17:21] these words around a little bit. But the value discussion creates engagement.

 And so, who gives referrals? Engaged clients. So, that's the main reason we want to do this. And let me tell you about the value discussion. Of all the things I've been teaching for 25 years. This is by far the most important. And so this is about checking in with prospects and clients to make sure they're seeing the value. First of all, we want to help them get in touch with the value. And by asking them to tell us a little bit about what they found helpful, valuable important, then that helps them get more in touch with it. And when they get more in touch with it, they feel good about it. We become more referable, we feel good about it. So we feel more willingness to ask to spread that value to other people.

 We also, especially once we're six months or more into a relationship, we want to make sure we fair out anything that isn't working. We know that most clients will complain about the big stuff. Occasionally the paperwork comes by and we didn't even know there's a problem. But generally, if it's something big, they'll complain. It's often the little things they won't complain about. Somebody whose call wasn't returned as quickly as it could have been.

 Or you promised to get this to me and I had to nudge it twice to get it. Whatever. So they don't like to complain about that, but they'd kind of like to, you know what I mean? And so when you give them permission to do that, just say, "Is there anything not working that we should know about? Has anybody dropped the ball I need to be aware of? Don't worry. You're not going to hurt my feelings. We just got to make sure we fix it or prevent it." "Well, as a matter of fact." So we got to make sure that that isn't lingering in a relationship.

 Now, what I recommend strongly is that early on in a brand new relationship that you foreshadow the fact that you're going to be having these check-ins. So it would go something like this, Brittany, as we started working together, I think you'd agree that it's important, given the nature of the work we're doing, that we have pretty forthcoming, honest, don't withhold kind of communication, would you agree?

Brittany Anderson:

Yes.

Bill Cates:

Yeah. So I just want to let you know, and to that end, pretty much every time we get together for any substantive meeting, I'm going to check in and I'm going to say, "How are we doing? Anything not working I need to know about, fix, prevent? And what is working?" We always want to know what we're doing right, what you appreciate, so we can do more of it and maybe help other folks that way too. And says, "Are you okay with that?" And of course, you'll say, "Yeah, that's fine." And so now it's foreshadowed into the conversation, you framed it right up front. And so now they know it, they expect it. They know we're going to check in. It makes it easier for them, makes it easier for us. Even if you haven't done that, you can still start doing it.

 And you can say, "This conversation we just had about our communication. Let's do this more often. Let's take that time out." So here's the way I liken it. You've heard the expression working in your business versus working on your business. Most of the time you're working in your business. Right now, listening to this podcast, unless you're multitasking, you're working on the business. Now we also have to apply that to our relationships. Most of the time we're working in the relationship with our client, prospect, et cetera, and employees, people who work for us, with us. Every now and then we have to work on the relationship. And that's that timeout that we take in virtually every meeting. This is the first step in asking for introductions is this value discussion.

 But even if you never ask, this is something you want to integrate into your habit base, because this is what will create engagement, you will see referrals without even asking. It happens all the time. I mean, I've been doing it for 25 years. I can't tell you the number of times I've had people say, "Hey, Bill, you're right. I had a value discussion and they volunteered their brother, their sister, whatever." So we know it works.

Brittany Anderson:

So, Bill, we've been following your stuff and reading your books and absorbing everything Bill Cates for years and years, but you just made me think about, going back to that fundamental value discussion. So I think that's so important and asking those questions and differentiating the activities because we talk a lot on the podcast about working on your business versus in it, and really being able to step outside the whirlwind, but it applies to your prospecting efforts and your relationship building with your clients as well. So I'm so glad that you brought that up. That's completely relevant. Especially considering the times, I mean, we're in a different world and you have to really focus on the relationship build versus just the stuff at the surface.

 So, Bill, we'll get ready to close out here in just a minute, but there's another thing that I really wanted to push on because it leads into maybe the next couple of weeks and couple episodes that we're going to do together, but you've talked about how getting the referral isn't the end game and how it's not enough to just get the referral. So I think what this means is you're transitioning into the whole sales skills conversation. So is that accurate?

Bill Cates:

Well, yeah. And the first part of that would be turning it into an introduction. So let's go there for a second. I mean, I often say just this counterintuitive thing to get people's attention is that referrals are worthless. And they really kind of are, you have a client that says, "Yeah, I'd love to introduce you to my brother. I'd love to introduce you to my parents, my adult children." Whatever. But they don't ever do it. So there's that willingness to refer versus actually making the connection. And we know it's so hard to reach people that the old "referred lead," "Call George, use my name." It just doesn't work the way it used to. George doesn't pick up his phone. He's wondering why his friend gave his name out to you.

 And sometimes out of respect for the referral source, they'll answer or return the call. But really we got to think in terms of actually getting introduced, getting connected. That's why I mentioned this introduction thing before. So to me, we're not done with this conversation with a client until we've been introduced. How would you like to introduce [inaudible 00:23:12] to Brittany? My guess is Bryan would like to hear from you before he hears from me. Let's talk about what an introduction would look like that feels comfortable to everybody.

 And just to frame this and probably we can go into more detail and then part two on this is think of the Food and Drug Administration when it's approving a drug for the market, there's two criteria they're looking for. Is the drug safe? And is it effective? Well, that's what we want for an introduction. We want it to feel safe for everybody. We want the person making the introduction to feel good, comfortable. We want the person receiving the introduction feel good, comfortable, safe. And we want it effective, meaning we'd like to at least pique the interest of this new prospect of ours.

 So when we go about creating that introduction, working together with the client to get the introduction, we're thinking, "Let's make it safe for everybody, but also let's make it effective. So we actually reach this person."

Brittany Anderson:

And I think too, Bill, it's making it easy, making it simple. So a lot of times I think what happens when you go to ask for that referral or that introduction, the mistake that people make is they make it hard. They make the person on the receiving end do the work and have to think about how it's all going to come together. So I think your methodology and your framework is so important to pay attention to, because it really makes it easy for the person on the receiving end, for the client, the advocate that's going to make that introduction. And then that process just flows better. I think that's really important.

Bill Cates:

Yeah. So let's have a tease for the next, part two, which is how do you make this introduction happen? Is it in person? Is it with an email? What is a good introduction and how do you make it happen? So I'm going to do your work here, Brittany. And I say, stay tuned for part two.

Brittany Anderson:

I love it.

Bill Cates:

We talk about how you actually make the introduction happen.

Brittany Anderson:

Bill, you're the only person I ever let steal my thunder on this. There you go. So I think, you've got so much to share. That's why we're breaking this into a few different episodes. We want you all to get a few weeks of Bill because he's got really good stuff. So as he said, as a teaser into next week, we're going to be talking radical relevance. We're going to talk about what it means and why it's important. So you are going to want to tune back in, stay with us for this full three week little mini series with Bill, because he has so much to share that is going to add immense value to your business that can help you grow, that can help you scale and do it in a way that really feels good. And I think that's important.

 So a couple takeaways, Bill, you may not be familiar with this, but we always like to share a couple of key takeaways from it. So the first thing that I got out of this, well, number one, I guess, go to that exponentialgrowthguide.com and download Bill's offer. I think that's going to add, in itself, that's going to add a ton of value. I know your content, I know your stuff, Bill, and you always come to the table with the best of the best. I think the second biggest takeaway is the value discussion. Really going deep with your clients and asking those questions and taking the time to work on those relationships versus just in them. I think that's going to be exponential for our listeners and it's really going to help you move that little, be the catalyst in your business, help you move people from satisfied to fully engaged.

 So stay with us, next week we're going to be back. We're going to be talking radical relevance. Thank you again, Bill, for being here. This is so fun. This is so good. And I can't wait to circle back on the next couple of weeks.

Bill Cates:

Thank you, Brittany.

Brittany Anderson:

So that wraps up, yes. Thank you. That wraps up this episode of The Ultimate Advisor Podcast. We will catch you right back here next week.

 Hey there, Brittany Anderson here. If you are loving what you're hearing on our Ultimate Advisor Podcast, don't keep us a secret. Share us with other advisors that you think would benefit from the messages that you are hearing. The easiest way to do that is just simply send them to ultimateadvisorpodcast.com. And If you want to learn a few other ways that we could potentially serve you as an advisor, go check out ultimateadvisormastermind.com. As always, we are so happy to have you here with us as part of the Ultimate Advisor community. And we look forward to a continued relationship.