Divine Lineage Student Interviews
Discover the Real Life and Spiritual Technologies of Yeshua and the Holy Family, brought to the world by Saint Sri Kaleshwar.
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Transcript of Interview with Cindy Lindsay: Witnessing the Miracles of Saint Sri Kaleshwar
Shamanism, Finding the Deer Path, and Following Swami Sri Kaleshwar
Jenna: Welcome back to the Supernatural Souls podcast. It is so good to be with you today. Today's episode is with Cindy Lindsay. Cindy Lindsay is of the Divine Mother Center in Laytonville, California. She is a certified teacher of the Ancient Yantra and Mantra systems within the Divine Lineage. And she also is a healer. She's been practicing as a healer for many years and found the divine lineage after a history in shamanism. She studied Incan shamanism of Peru and went really far in that path before she ultimately met Sri Kaleshwar and was guided to go further with the practices in the Divine Lineage. Cindy also earned a PhD in Psychology and served as a university professor and consultant for many years. So she brings a robust background to her work in the Divine lineage today. And we hear from her about her experience meeting Sri Kaleshwar, going to India for the first time, saying yes to this incredible journey that starts. So when you connect with the Divine Lineage and ultimately what some of her words of wisdom are for us today as we navigate change on the planet, as we navigate this this time of reckoning related to the divine feminine and ultimately how we can engage the Divine Lineage and the practices within it for practical purposes, to lead healthier, more joyful lives and to bring a next generation of advanced souls, the next generation of souls who are maybe free from some of the baggage we've been carrying here on Earth. So we talk about so many aspects of the lineage and ways in which you can engage with the lineage in today's episode.
Jenna: Welcome Cindy. It's so good to be here with you. What a journey to get to this point of interviewing you about your journey!
Cindy: Oh, well, thank you. I've been so impressed with how much you've jumped in and learned and done in this tradition with Sri Kaleshwar and Shirdi Baba. So it's my pleasure to talk to you today.
Jenna: Well, it feels important because you're one of our first guests on the podcast and you're one of the first people in the lineage that I connected with and I took your Holy Womb Chakra Course. You have a number of courses that we will link to in the show notes so people can find those. That was really my introduction to you and a big introduction to the lineage. So before we get into the courses and the teachings and all of that, I want to just start by asking, how did you get into this lineage? Because you are such a profound teacher of this wisdom now and in so many ways. I've seen so much of how you've shared your heart and soul through the virtual Ashram and the courses and you've had quite the journey to get to this lineage as well as many people have. So how did you get here? What's your origin story?
Cindy: Well, originally I was a professor of psychology, but when I was a graduate student, I went to some anthropological conference or something and Alberto Villoldo was there. And I got introduced to Shamanism and I spent quite a number of years working in shamanism with Alberto and then Jose Luis Carrera. And I never intended to leave that tradition. I was already teaching in it. I was already doing healing in it. All of my spare time was about that tradition and that spiritual path. And I did it since the mid eighties, so I had probably 20 years or something in that past. And there was a point in time where, I went on a sort of a vision quest and a deer came to me and said, “would you like to learn the deer path?” And I said, “yes.” And the deer said, “It will cost you everything you think yourself to be.” And if I really thought that through in the moment, I might have said no, but I didn't. I said ok. And then within a couple of weeks I had a car accident in which I had a head injury and I couldn't function as a professor anymore. And, um, I thought, “oh, gee, this dear path… I thought that was going to be nice and gentle. This is not so nice and gentle.” So I had to take a sabbatical from my work at that time and I had time on my hands. I was trying to do heal. I was trying to heal myself with sweats and all sorts of things. And then a friend of mine said, “Oh, you have to hear about this great Guru.” And she was always saying, “Oh, you have to hear about this great person and that great person.” So I thought, OK. The great Guru was Sri Kaleshwar, but I didn't know that at the time. And I was just sort of thinking, “I'll get around to looking at his website sooner or later. I'm still trying to heal myself,” you know. And then another friend of mine who's a psychic said - we were just having conversations - she sort of breaks into conversations with things she sees and she said, “you're going to work with a man who can manifest fire in his hands,” and then she went back to talking about her son or whatever.
Jenna: Well that turned out to be true.
Cindy: I know I write all these little things down that she pops up with. So then I think, oh, ok. I have to go look at this guy's website. I go to the first page of the website and it used to have a set of scrolling pictures of the ashram and of Swami on the first page. And the very first picture that was there when I opened up the website was Swami Kaleshwar with fire coming out of the palm of his hand. And I said out loud. “Oh, no. Now I have to go to India.” And a friend of mine who was in my house at the time said, “When do we go?” And so we went. Tt was like, ok, well, I guess we're doing this. I guess we're going to India. There was a program - it was a month long program in India. And that was a lot to bite off too. But we said, “ok, if we're going to jump in, let's jump in.” Neither of us had ever been to India and certainly had never lived in an Ashram.
And we got there and there was a young man. His name is Ramakrishna Jenkins and he's an amazing teacher inside the tradition, but he was also a student at that time… this is 2000. And he came to meet our car as it arrived to show us where we were going to stay and so on. And when he opened the door, I physically saw sparkles of light come out of his eyes. And I thought to myself, if this guy got that here, this is the place to be. I want this thing. And it was a very difficult program because I couldn't understand what Swami was saying because he was very young at the time. He was in his twenties and he was just learning English and everybody else seemed to be registered to the tune and tone of his voice. And it took me a long time. I struggled and I couldn't hear what the mantras were and we would all be sent off to do a process. And I was sitting there thinking, “I don't even know what we're doing. I don't know.”
Angelic Encounter and Powerful Healing Experiences at the Ashram
So it was very difficult but soon early on in that program, he told us all to go back to our rooms and he would give a distance healing. And there were no screens on the windows at that time. There was only two floors to the student housing and it wasn't finished yet and it was just sort of open air. And so I had a little tent that I slept in and I laid down in my little tent and I closed my eyes and then I could hear what I thought were angel wings flapping on the tent. And I thought, “wow, this must be the distance healing that's going on.” My roommates were running around talking and I wanted to tell them be quiet, be quiet, there's something happening. But there was no time. There was this feeling and a physical… almost air pumping… feeling of those wings on the my little tent. And then I saw this huge brilliant light come towards me and it kind of went in one ear and I just felt exquisitely transformed. And then in a few minutes, I saw a huge dark thing come at me, which I didn't understand at the time, but I'll explain it now… a huge dark thing come in me and come in the other ear and everything that I had ever cut away from myself… and Shamanism as a way of healing myself, depression, bladder infections, childhood abuse, whatever that was, everything that I had, cutting away was a very traditional way of removal. So everything I had cut away from myself during shamanism returned to me. So the next day I had a bladder infection. I was in deep depression. I mean, just everything all at once. And so it was a very difficult program for me. And I even claimed I'm never coming back here. This is too much.
When I got home I had a friend with another conversation with my psychic friend. And she, “I've never seen you more brilliant.” I said, “I do not feel brilliant. I feel awful.” And then it came to me… they were like voices in my head telling me that the power of transformation… you have to make it through those things. You cannot just cut them away from yourself. You were living a happy life from cutting those away from yourself. But if you want to be a person of power and if you want that transformation into a Shakti lineage, which is where you hold the power, you have to transform those things in you. And it was just so clear that that's what he had done. He had given me the light to be able to do it. And then he'd given me back everything I needed to move through in order to reclaim that power. When I was doing shamanism, I didn't believe I was cutting away my power. I was cutting away things that were making me unhappy in my life. And I certainly lived a happy life from that. But now I know from having worked through those things that I had… that with each one of those, each karmic lesson, each karmic thing that had come to me. There is a karmic gift to be had if we can work through it. And in the ensuing years of going back and forth to the ashram, for what, 18, 19 years worth going back and forth. I think I've managed to make it through. Most of those new things have happened, but I think I've made it through most of the things that I have simply cut away from myself. I certainly have a happy life again. And it's a much happier life than the happy life I had created by cutting things away from me and shamanism because this happiness has got a bliss to it. It's got a depth to it and I can see the power of it every time I came back from the Ashram
And I had clients at that time, shamanic clients are still working with me. Every time I came back from the Ashram, my shamanic clients would like, OK, what are we gonna get now? Because the, the energy that I could bring through was so much higher, so much higher. And sooner or later, my shamanic teacher at the time who was Jose Luis recognized that. And I knew that it wasn't from the shamanic tradition. I knew it was from Swami and Baba. And the next time I went to the Ashram - we're still in the early years of my Ashram timing. But next time I went to the Ashram, he did a program and one we were going to do for a particular process. We do these processes and you get involved in these experiences in order to gain a various connections and blessings and so on. And oftentimes you have to give something up to get something - that's a rule of Dattatreya. They call it that - you have to release something in order to receive something. So he asked us all to give something up that. A daily thing for us that we could give up. We'd give it up for the rest of our lives and then go put your head down to Baba's feet and tell him what it is. So I thought, OK, I'll give up coffee. I'm a little addicted to coffee. I do that every day. I'm giving it up. I'm going to go to Baba to put my head down to Baba's feet. And I said, “I'm giving up coffee.” And I was physically blown away from the little foot things that they put out. And I sat stunned and I heard this very powerful voice in my head say, “What do I care if you give up coffee. Stop hiding me behind shamanism.”
Jenna: and a pretty direct message that's a pretty direct
Cindy: I went home and I wrote all my shamanic clients. I’m not doing that anymore. I'd be happy to still work with you, but I'm going to work with you for this other tradition. And I wish you well. And if you want another shamanic practitioner, I'll tell you who to go to and so on. But nobody left. They'd already felt the power. Hm.
Jenna: And you said it had almost been like palpable for them the first couple of times.
Cindy: Absolutely. Absolutely. At first they thought, oh, no, what's going to happen. And then it was like, no, thank you very much. This is great. Keep going to that India thing. If you get another month off, you go ahead and take it.
Jenna: So there was some trust building around the energy that you were, you were carrying.
Cindy: In addition to the shamanic practice, they'd already felt it so beautiful. They were happy.
Jenna: It seems like that shamanic path was an important foundation though. I'd love for you to maybe speak to some of the foundational practices or experiences that might be helpful for people as they're finding this lineage, this path. Because this is a somewhat advanced practitioner path. Having some history and I had a similar history of the shamanic practice that would allow me to transition into this lineage successfully. So, I'm curious about your thoughts on those foundational practices.
The 5 Elements, Shamanic Practice, and Divine Feminine Power
Cindy:Yeah. I think it’s the Rumi saying that when the flower blooms, the bee becomes invited. So when you're ready the next piece comes to you, it does. And I believe that shamanism made me ready in many ways. Having cut away all that stuff, I was starting to live a happy life, which I think was important. First of all, that was a huge difference in my life to be living a happy life. So I'm very thankful to shamanism for that. I did have to work back through it with Swami. But I am thankful for that because it gave me a taste of having a happy life for sure. The five elements are in every one of those shamanic traditions somewhere. They may call them by different things and work with them in different ways. But that essential knowing I think is crucial as sitting underneath Kaleshwar’s stuff. It's like the first thing most people do is the five element practices in order to connect to the elements external, but also to cleanse and clear the elements inside us since we're made of those elements too. And I deeply adore some of the relationship with the elements that I got in shamanism where we would let the rivers sing to us or, be with the fire and dance with it or learn how to get the fire to follow you around the circle or, these kinds of experiences you have in shamanism are so tactile and beautiful and so deeply connected to the elements that I'm very, very grateful for them. And really before shamanism, my parents were scientists. So I didn't grow up in a family that had any religion. And although I had attended a religious school for college, based on that, they gave me a great big scholarship to do so. I had felt a huge energy come through the top of my head for the first time. A connection to God there. It didn't ever feel like it was the past for me. So shamanism did feel like that for many years to me because that huge energy would, would come through the top of my head and those practices and in that connection to nature. And I still think the connection to nature is big in Sri Kaleshwar’s teaching too. You know that some saints learn everything just from the nature. And that's what I think shamans are… the saints that learn everything just from the nature.
Jenna: Hm. I love that. I think that's a really beautiful way to think about it. And you mentioned Sri Kaleshwar's teachings are kind of sitting on this foundation of understanding how to work with the elements. And you also mentioned this idea of becoming a person of power. So I'd love to, to hear you describe what that means to you. What does it mean?
Cindy: Well, power in this tradition is not power over somebody. It's the charge of energy of the divine. It is the energy that fuels everything in this creation. It is the energy that fuels everything beyond this creation. It is the energy of the Divine Mother's womb, the Shakti energy. And many traditions inside Hinduism and so on, Vedic teachings are often Bakti traditions - that is that they're based in worship of the Guru, worship of the deity, open your heart with pure love. This, it's just beautiful. It's beautiful, it's beautiful and it's strong and it's powerful for just maintaining the daily life and for living a happy life and for being connected into Divine energy. It's beautiful. But this is a Shakti tradition which means that not only do we need to have that, which is the basis of how you're ever going to get any Shakti. If you don't have an open heart, nothing's happening. We're looking to connect to specific energy channels in the creation and in the Divine Mother. And to be able to find that energy in our own beings because we are are her, we are this nature. We are made of the same five elements that everything else is made up. But we are not separate from this. And it is the belief in separation, which is illusion. It is the definition of illusion. So we are ultimately finding those energies in us. But in order to do that, we connect with them through mantra processes. We connect into these very specifically pinpointed energies, power energies, power channels, energy channels and charge ourselves with them to be able to experience that within our own beings and become one with that completely. And when we are one with it, we can also use it to help other people. So that Shakti energy is a Divine Feminine energy. It's a loving energy. It is love and power combined. We used to talk about you can't have love or just love or power, you have to have love and power combined. And those Shakti channels have that love and power combined. They have her love to have our own love and they have a deep connection into eternal energetics of the creation.
Jenna: You mentioned Shri Kawar, you know, as a person of power this person who has tapped into that divine feminine power, who is absolutely embodied this oneness, this aspect of God consciousness, that allows that being to demonstrate acts of power. I'm curious what it was like for you when you first met him. You mentioned getting to the Ashram and seeing this young man.
Cindy: You could see the light coming out of his eyes and he was a young man and, in his twenties, I don't really exactly know how old he was and skinny. If you didn't feel something when you were around him, you would have thought who is this kid? But you could immediately feel something when you were with him. You would go into a kind of a trance sometimes. There was such an energy emanating from him and if he would smile at you, you could feel this like wave coming your way. You know, you could even feel that sometimes when he might have been thinking on you, I think because you could feel these waves of this energy coming at you. And so it was clear you even to somebody who was skeptical like me in that first visit, that this was a hugely powerful being. You could feel it, you could experience it. He would give talks in the Mandir and you'd be wide awake at the beginning and as he would talk, you'd just start going into this kind of trance state where you could barely keep your soul in your body, you could barely stay present. And then sometimes he would say you, “Whoo, is everybody awake out there.”
Jenna: You know, I've even noticed that watching some of his videos or even reading a book. That's a similar effect.
Cindy: Yes. Yeah. I was on a train with a friend of mine and gave them the five books which had Swami's picture on the front and he picked up the book and the picture winked at him. So Sri Kaleshwar is everywhere in all things and all the time and even more so now that he's in Samadhi and able to be outside the body and no longer be constrained to the maya and the elemental play on the body. He's everywhere all the time and you don't have to have gone to the Ashram. You don't have to have met him in person alive. You look at his picture and his energy will come through.
Jenna: How else would you suggest newcomers or maybe people who are curious and exploring this path. How else would you suggest they start to make that connection to Swami and to Baba?
Cindy: I think if you're going to feel drawn to it, you're probably going to feel drawn through the picture. Just look at the picture and see if you feel any connection. For some people, they're not big feelers, you know, they don't have a lot of sensations and experiences, but you might try do doing one of the earlier mantras, one of the element mantras, for example, and see if I think you had a huge powerful experiences doing mantras, right? See if the mantras bring you some sense of experience there. We also have a lot of amazing teachers scattered around in the US and Germany and even in Japan and places. So just listening to some sort of Satsang with a local teacher or attending a fire, we have pujas here that can be attended online and many people can really feel the power of that fire ceremony. So just see if there's something that connects you in and if there's something that's connecting you in, then go for that for a while and then add and see if something else connects you in because it really has to be a heart connection and it really has to be a soul connection. This lineage is about your soul, this lineage is about your heart. And if you're not connected in there, there's no point to follow it. So, yeah. To find a place where you can feel that and,
Jenna: It kind of seems like there's like one entry point, like maybe the photo or a Satsong, and then it's almost like Swami and Baba are kind of reeling you in, help helping you recognize that connection more and more. And until finally, it's just undeniable that that connection is there.
Cindy: Yeah I left that the first time saying I'm never coming back here and I went back three times that year. Like the reeling it was happening.
The Mechanism of Miracles, Lingham Manifestation and Power Objects
Jenna: Did you ever witness Sri Kaleshwar perform a miracle?
Cindy: Oh Yes, on multiple occasions.
Jenna: What was that?
Cindy: I'll tell the one that it was for me. I was in a small audience with him. Just one on one. And he said, “What do you want?” I said “I wanna have something to heal people's souls,” because I was already a healer and he placed a rose in my hands and he had me cup my hands over the rose. I could feel the rose in my hands and then he said, “What do you think is in your hands?” And I said “a rose,” and he says, “look”. And in there was a beautiful crystal Lingham. A gorgeous crystal Lingham. And I've been using it to do healing with people's souls ever since then. But I was dumbfounded in the moment. I really had no clue but then I also had no… I was also in that kind of semi trance state because I was in its presence, so the miracle energy was happening in my own hands. And I didn't have enough presence of consciousness early in those early days to notice that. And he always used to say, you have to notice when a miracle is happening, you have to pay attention to that. There is a mechanism to miracles. There's an energetic to miracles, really pay attention. And I thought, wow, “this miracle happened in my own hands and I wasn't conscious enough to get it.” So every time I saw a miracle after there was like, OK, what's happening here? Can I feel it? Do? I know what's going on? And yes, you can, you can know what's going on. It's just that in that first one, my consciousness hadn't been developed enough to do so.
Jenna: Yeah. Wow. To experience something like physically change form, right there in front of you. It's got to just kind of just shatter, any idea of what you thought reality was about?
Cindy: And that's the point of some of doing some of these miracles for people is to get them out of the regular state of consciousness and into a higher state of consciousness, a state of consciousness which can believe and miraculous energy. And I slept with that Lingham for many years and for quite a few years, most of the dreams were about it changing into different forms. So I think he was trying to give me the understanding of it.
Jenna: I wonder if those are like prophetic dreams where maybe there's additional manifestation that would happen with it.
Cindy: Well, I certainly, I think it's helped a lot of people in the world as my clients because I am holding it the whole time. I'm doing healing with people. So I do think it's made a a lot of transformation for a lot of people.
Jenna: I think that's a really cool point to make too for folks who are finding this lineage now, who are, thinking about who do I connect with? You know, what healers, teachers am I wanting to learn from and receive healing from? Sri Kaleshwar gave or manifested with certain people really important power objects and those exist and finding those people and connecting with those objects…
Cindy: Even feeling the power of those objects. There are people who have, it's a very difficult process… you swallow ash and then you grow a Lingham inside your own body. And for men, men do it primarily, and then they have to vomit it back up. When a Lingham is made and I know a number of people, I know several people who have one of those that he made very powerful objects and there are lots of amazing power objects that he gave many students. So if you can connect with one of them and I don't feel like I can ID them right now because who knows? I don't know if they want folks knowing that they own that they have that power object but find them and you know, ask if I want to experience the energy of a power object. Yeah.
Jenna: Yeah. Good reason to get connected with different teachers throughout the lineage. Maybe we'll learn about more of those on the pod at some point. Swami talked about the these miracle experiences or manifestations as chocolates or treats and ways to kind of entice people into the Divine… to open their hearts to the Divine. So that's one big exciting thing about the lineage, but there's also so many incredible practical processes, for lack of a better term, that just help us in our everyday lives. The idea of performing miracles can feel fun and enticing to us all. But also to me, it kind of feels like the point going through all of these practices is to clear the negativity, and find ways to live more joyful fulfilling lives. So I'd love for you to share a little bit from your perspective about the practices that exist within the lineage that really do practically help us in our day to day lives.
The Core Practices of the Divine Lineage
Cindy: OK. Well, first of all is meditation, we shouldn't take meditation off of the list. It should be number one on the list. And meditation is a practice that will definitely change your life. And especially if you can get into a trance state. And there's a whole teaching about the stages of meditation for specifically for getting to trace and into getting into Shakti trance, which is a very powerful teaching that Swami gave. So it's a different teaching about meditation that you might have gotten in any other version, any other Hindu lineage, it's called the eight stages of silence is what it's called that teaching. So that I think its very, very powerful. Then of course, there's the five elements which is for purifying the elements in you and purify and creating your relationship to the elements that are the building blocks of this creation. There are subsequent ones for the inner elements, which is really deeply purifying the elements in you to be a channel of those energies in a very powerful way. And even something called the which comes, which is another practice for connecting into the elements.
So there's a lot of focus on those elements. If we're going to do our own miraculous energy of healing, for example, it's not like I'm going to manifest a Lingham, but we're going to shift somebody's consciousness from being a victim into being healthy or from being ill to being well, then you're doing a miraculous act and you're always affecting on those five elements and using the five elements in you as a channel for that effect. So the all those five elements processes are super beautiful for any healer I think personally. Because I was still doing shamanic healing when I had finished the five elements. And that's one of the things that brought up my power for my clients for example, there's something called Paramashiva yoga, which is a number of steps to getting to connection with Mother Divine and Shiva but the steps themselves are just so beautiful. One pulls all the elements together in you. Another one releases fear and doubt. They're just so gorgeous. Another one takes away… if you've had trouble with like sexual desires getting in your way and messing up your life. Another one takes care on that, you know. So there's each one of these is some purification of you, some movement of your energy towards the Divine Mother's energy to be more consistent with that, which is how you're, you're getting to her basically. You know, we say you talked about getting to her. Well, how do we get to her? We become her, you know, we purify ourselves enough that we are an energy, getting closer and closer to the energy of her or of Shiva. So that Paramashiva yoga is that process of purifying these energies in us till we get to the point where we are more consistent with that energy or at least available to be able to receive that energy directly.
There is the womb. Holy womb chakra. I shouldn't leave that one out. Yeah, that's an important one that even if you don't do anything else with Sri Kaleshwar, especially if you're a woman. Although Holy Womb Chakra is for both women and men and people who identify in other ways too, because everybody has a womb chakra, whether you have a physical womb or not, u whether you identify with that physical womb or not, you have a womb chakra. But especially for women who want to have that kind of powerful energy to do spiritual work in the world. To even be a higher teacher to their family or in their business or anything else. Connection to the Divine Mother's power is within them. The Holy Womb Chakra is a fantastic set of practices and a deep, deep understanding. I have my class - mine is both the practices, but it's also this deeper understanding of it. I think somebody could just do the practices. They don't have to dive into the deeper understanding, they could just do the practices and benefit from that. Absolutely. If they find themselves intrigued by that energy, then understanding all the deeper interconnections of the womb chakra to everything else that is of spiritual importance in our tradition is really fascinating. And that Mother Mary did these practices as part of becoming who she was in her lifetime, I think is also telling us, OK, yes, a normal human woman many lifetimes ago, she meditated for 100 lifetimes to be in the Mother Mary lifetime and bring through the miracle of Jesus and to follow through on that in her life. But she was a woman and she did this and part of the way she did this is through those womb chakra practices. So the Holy Womb Chakra is a fabulous set of practices.
There are hundreds of things he did. I'm just going to mention a few here. One of them is called Kaala Chakra. And Kaala Chakra are the wheels of time. All of our souls, we have a soul timing. We have a body timing. Obviously, we age, we have a timing that we come into the creation. We have a timing that we're sitting inside our family lineage. We have all these wheels of time that are affecting on us to bring us our karma. So if we can intervene on the wheels of time, that bring us our karma, then we can win against those karmic plays and advance the soul. So that's one of the things that Kaala Chakra helps us to do is it helps us to win those wheels of time and be able to free ourselves from some of those karmic pulls that we have and karmic negativities that we engage as a natural part of life, right? And then mentioning Karma, I think just even the notion of understanding what Karma is and really understanding what one does with karma and what's happening with karma and how do you live a life where you win those? Swami liked to talk about winning things. It means how do you become free from a negative karmic engagement that you may have been playing out throughout your entire lifetime and the lifetimes before that too? How do you gain that freedom from moving through Karma as I had to do when he put all that back inside me… I think that's an important teaching right there and an important personal process that everybody needs to go through. Then there are the Jesus channels and I could keep going and it goes on and on. You can't believe how much I'm looking at a picture right now. You can't believe how much this soul brought through in a short period of time that he was on the earth. It was incredible. And that was his goal…. that he knew he had only so much time and he had to get it all out there whether we understood it in the moment or not…. you know, like get it, do it, move to the next thing. And so it was very fast paced while Swami was alive or in the body… he’s still alive in other forms. Um Now in the virtual ashram, we're going back through all that and saying, did we really understand this? Let's look deeper at it now that we see the full body of knowledge. Does the first thing he taught make sense to us and so on. So that virtual Ashram is the way that the current students are really diving into this huge amount of knowledge and processes that Swami left for us and trying to make deeper sense of it for ourselves. Because in the moment we would just do them, go on to the next one, do the next one, go onto the next one and you could feel it and you would feel the power of it, but it was just so fast paced really. But so it's nice to take more time now and enjoy the process.
Jenna: Oh my goodness. Oh What a blessing now to have both the people who were there for his teachings and so many who've come along since to be able to digest all of this information in new ways now. And I think in the Ashram you've used the term grind, the information.
Cindy: Grind and digest were terms. Yeah, we sort of picked up a language here of our own. But grinding means getting down to truly understanding the underlying mechanism and energetic mechanism of what's occurring there to really get to the point where you could reproduce it. He had talked about stages of our own illusions on ourselves. In the first stage you're kind of doing this process and you're just doing it, doing it, doing it. You don't know why you're doing it, but you're doing it anyway. I was in that for quite a long time in the beginning years. Sort of second stage is you're feeling it. It's doing something… you have a sense of what it's doing. But you don't know how to make that happen by yourself. And it really takes a depth of meditation and grinding to get to the third stage of the illusion there where you really can reproduce that energetic… what the mechanism is that is underneath it. You could reproduce that energetic. You can start to use it in some ways in the world. And then there are other stages of the illusion where you become a co-creator with mother divine. But most of us are in 1, 2 or three. It's like we're in the first three stages.
The Spiral of Time and Non Linear Evolution
Jenna: Oh, you're talking about the wheel of time and how, and I was just thinking about that in relation to all of these teachings and all of these practices and this idea that he delivered all of this in a way that was not linear. He kind of purposefully…
Cindy: I think absolutely purposely. And now that's happening again. Yeah a little piece here and a little piece there and a little piece over there as we could grasp it and as it would infuse us… We were much slower than he was. So we had to… he had to do it some very interesting ways. So it was also to protect the information as well. Because when you put something highly powerful into the world… Shakti energy into the world, it creates reverberation from the nature. Nature likes a balance and there is positive and negative in nature, light and dark. We're in this world of separation and duality. And so if you put a huge high positive out, something comes to kind of hit it and knock it back down back to that original balance point. So oftentimes what he was doing was putting it out in a trickled out kind of fashion. So as not to have anything come as a stoppage to it.
Jenna: Exactly. That makes a lot of sense. It also makes me think about how as we progress in that karmic clearing, karmic lesson path and the integration that's necessary with all of that. And continuing through all of the practices, there's like these stage gates we pass through. There's like these… almost like tests in a way for our consciousness.
Cindy: Yeah.
Jenna: Like tests and ways in which our consciousness needs to be able to connect the dots across pieces of information, aspects of the experience, the energy, the way it feels. I've been kind of processing that lately. This idea of it's not meant to be something that's just laid out on a red carpet for you. Like we're meant to put the pieces of the puzzle together ourselves on that path of finding power.
Cindy: Absolutely. The soul grows from that. In my opinion some people say the soul doesn't need to grow. But I like to think of the soul growing. So I think that you actually expand when you get it internally like that. People will listen to this podcast and go like blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, but it's not until they feel it inside themselves that they really know something. And that was also a teaching that Sri Kaleshwar gave. He said you can smell a mango, you can taste a mango… but do you really know what a mango is? And so you have to be feeling it internally to yourself. You have to experience it and you have to experience the test of it too. I think you said testing and I think that's Absolutely right.
Jenna: Oh, boy, there is.
Cindy: Yeah, you do because you're trying to hold a whole new energy inside you and it's almost as if the nature comes and says, well, if I do this, can you still hold it, if I do that? Can you still hold it now? You know, it really does teach you how to hold that energy. It does as long as you don't get all pissed off at these tests. And this is terrible. I thought this was gonna make my life perfect.
Jenna: Yeah. You have to say thank you for the test.
Cindy: Yeah. And you have to realize that this is the road to perfection. I wouldn't say perfection. But it is the road to happiness. It is ultimately the road to that holding of that energy in you. It's a little bit of a bumpy road. It is a little bit of a bumpy road spirituality. I think a lot of people enter spirituality because they want to be happy. And so if they encounter bumps in the process of that spirituality, they think, ok, this isn't for me. But I can tell you the reason. One of the reasons I told my original story there about the having to go through all the stuff I cut away from me and shamanism is that there is a much higher bliss available to you than that short term happiness you thought you were getting. There is a much higher bliss when you work through those karmas, when you make it to the other side of that, when you are tested on what energy you hold and know that you can hold it. There is a strength in you and there is a bliss in you that you can't even know until you're there.
Jenna: Yeah, I'm so glad you shared that Cindy because there have been a lot of moments on my path where I've been like, “OK, I'm not throwing in the towel… I'm not throwing in the towel Mother, but give me a break. I just need like, I just need a couple of weeks…”
Cindy: And Sri Kaleshwar even had a process. He said come to my picture or come to Baba and say I'm pretty good cooked. You know I can't take it. You have to take it for a little while because I'm pretty good cooked, you know. So he knew that was gonna happen for us and we have a place to go. We can go to him, we can go to Baba, we can go to Jesus, we can go to Mother Mary, we can go to those places and they will hold us. That I know for sure. Even when things happened in my life that most people would consider huge tragedies. And certainly I did consider them a huge tragedy in the moment… I went to them and they held it for me and they held it… they held me as I worked my way through it and I'm getting a little teary… and I'm so very grateful.
Jenna: It's so beautiful. And I'm so grateful for you, Cindy for sharing the full picture. Like you said, I think that we often enter the world of spirituality with maybe rose colored glasses on and it's so much more. And to understand the depth of what's possible, the depth of feeling, the depth of bliss. Like you've talked about the depth of support that's available to us. If we're willing it'll crack us open in a beautiful way and I'm just so grateful for you sharing the breadth of that because I think we do hit those moments of, oh gosh, can I handle more? Is this really for me? You know, where's God in this? When it gets hard? And you talked about that at the beginning…. That Divine Mother is all of it… Divine Mother is the darkness. We have to integrate. And there's beauty in that too.
Cindy: There is beauty beyond, through and beyond that. There is beauty because she is beautiful every aspect of it is beautiful just because we've come into this separation where we see what is dark and what it is light and is itself an illusion. So when we overcome that illusion, that is a bliss state.
Jenna: Yeah. And ultimately that is where these teachings lead us… this lineage is about that path of transcendence… transcending that illusion and you've referenced multiple times how important this knowledge is. This lineage is just the unbelievable nature of what Sri Kaleshwar was able to bring into this world. Why do you think he came on the planet when he did? Why do you think it is being carried forward in the way it is today through all of the beautiful souls in the lineage?
Cindy: Well, I think that the Kaala Chakra issue is that there was a timing in the creation for that to happen. And Swami is one of what we call the SaptaRishis, which are seven original souls which reincarnate over time, over and over and over and over again in order to move the creation forward and in a previous lifetime he was a guru to mother Mary and was there at the time of Jesus and so on. And he promised to come into this lifetime and bring these channels at that time. And that was one promise he made. But also when he had his awakening in this lifetime, he realized this was the last a lifetime to bring forward the divine mother channels. And even had to go into a yoga Samadhi. So a small death, a timing where his body appeared dead for three days, but he came back alive from it, went into a yoga Samari to ask the divine court as he called them… which is Baba and Jesus and Buddha. And I don't know who else is on the divine court. But that's the level of the divine court to go ask the divine court for the permission to do it in this lifetime. wWhen he first started work at the Ashram and students started coming to him, he went into that yoga Samadhi to go to the divine court to get the permission to give the highest possible energy channels this timing right now in this lifetime. And he got that permission obviously from that court and then it… boom everything… then get out as much as he possibly can. So probably a larger clock ticking there. But also he had to go and ask for permission for that and he had already promised it as well earlier on in a previous lifetime.
The Power of Divine Feminine Energy and Womb Chakra
Jenna: You've also talked about the power of the divine feminine and so much of what Sri Kaleshwar taught centered around the power of the Divine Mother and really understanding her and understanding her nature and illusions. And he talked about this particular time on the planet being one where the divine feminine would rise again… that there would be a resurgence of feminine beings in power. How do you see that playing out?
Cindy: Well, I do see it playing out. Absolutely. See it playing out. But also we're in a timing… in a yuga there are huge time periods. They're like, I don't know, many thousands of years long, but we're in the ending of a yuga and the beginning of a new, of a new yuga. So we're at the ending of a cycle of Yugas where we've gone from having enlightenment and the next year less enlightened the next year, less enlighten, the next year less enlightened. And then if the whole thing changes over again and you go to an enlightenment… we're right in between those two in that big change over timing. So that's part of the reason why it's time to bring that back. It's because we are in a change over timing because human consciousness does need to change in order to bring forward… in order to meet, in order to be one with the next yuga, which is coming this time of enlightenment, which is coming. So, he definitely believed in that time of enlightenment being that we're in that in between space right now. And we need to prepare for that and to prepare for that is to bring the enlightened energy into your own being. And she is the Divine Mother… is all energy, all enlightenment, all light that is in creation and beyond creation. So to connect with her is the fastest, most direct path to that. But I also see it in terms of who we are as human beings and how we're behaving on the planet that um we've gone through a lot of cycles where we've had um the diminishment of women and the diminishment of the sacred nature of the earth and of her and the diminishment of women in their sacred power, but also in their daily lives and in their bodies and in their in our world. We have definitely taken that dive through the yugas with respect to women and with respect to this planet and the way we treat it. And so it is definitely time for that piece to come back up in this shift to a time of enlightenment for sure. Because women in their bodies, now everybody has a womb chakra. But women in their physical bodies with that womb have a direct connection into the energy of Mother Divine. And through that diminishment of women, through that removal of their, of their sacred practices through all of those generations of what happened to women. And is still happening to women and the moving of women out of the sacred temples because these were men's areas or whatever. We lost touch, we lost touch with something that is the highest power of the universe inside us. It is here. It has always been here every time anyone comes in a female body, whether they identify with it or not. If you come in the female body, that energy is strongly in you to make a direct connection to the Divine Mother's energy. The womb chakra they say is the baby of the Sri chakra. The womb chakra is our womb. The Sri chakra is Mother Divines, so we have that in us if we can just purify it. If we can just utilize it. But all this history, all this confusion and thinking women were the weaker sex and not powerful has to be overcome and it has to be overcome socially. It has to be overcome within our own beings. And the way we carry it around has to be overcome within our family lines and the way our family karma has played that. So there's a big work of overcoming that has to happen here. And I think the womb chakra is a huge piece of that. But when we do bring that back within ourselves, then we are making ourselves ready for the timing when that is the energy of enlightenment in the world.
Divine Baby Blessings
Cindy: And one of the ways we really love that to happen around here is by making divide babies, for example, there are certain practices that Sri Kaleshwar left behind for giving high divine Shaktipat energy to a baby in the womb. That allows them to automatically hold that enlightenment energy in them as they are born into this creation and its maya and its illusion. And there are set of practices for families as well and for parents to do for Children throughout different ages so that they can maintain a connection to that within them, even though the illusion is playing all the things it plays on everybody that leads them down into their karma and into negativities and into all sorts of problems in their lives. There are practices that parents can do for their Children to maintain a connection to that throughout their childhood and Sri Kaleshwar said that the perfect timing for attaining enlightenment is somewhere between the age of puberty and 27 years old that you absolutely can attain the highest spiritual energy by the age of 20 by the age of 20. If you, if you've been able to have that activated in you and held in you and supported in you and protected in you through these kinds of practices that he gave for during pregnancy, during birthing and for parents during childhood. And so we're very excited about that as a way of changing the creation by bringing the souls in and maintaining their connection to their divine soul energy and into the Divine Mother throughout their childhoods. Because we know that most people probably say they didn't have a good childhood in modern times and some people have horrendous childhoods. And most of us went through all the, the stages of the illusion playing on us. You know, we didn't find spirituality until when we were 30 or 40 years old. And now we're struggling. Imagine just imagine a world where they receive it in the womb where they're given energy to maintain that through all the struggles that happen in life. It's a different rule completely.
Jenna: Yeah. Think about the next generation that could be free of karma. That could be free of all the baggage that we've been carrying.
Cindy: It may not make you free of karma, but it would certainly make you free to address that. Karma with joy and love and win it. You know, somebody else's karma is gonna play on you. You're walking down the street and somebody screams at you. But you respond to it differently. You don't have the same karmic response set in you. You are responding to it differently. You experience it differently. You give love in that moment. In fact I'm going to segue into a story about one of these kids that received the divine baby blessing. He went to school. Um he's much older now but in his first years of going to school, he was in a classroom with a kid who was fairly disturbed. He had anger fits and rages and nobody quite knew what to do with them. Even the teacher would sort of back away from the child when this was happening because it was just so severe and our little divine child came into this classroom. And the first time that happened, everybody else was, you know, stunned and shaking and backing away and he just walked towards the child slowly with his palms out saying it's ok, it's ok, it's ok. And the kid calmed down, the teacher was stunned, the classroom was stunned… the child who had had those rages, those rages started to go down over time. This is a what a four year old. This is just was his instinct from having had divine baby Shakti pod and his parents doing the mantras for him to maintain that energy to in that moment open with love. And the love flowed and the love did the healing itself.
Jenna: That's so incredible.
Cindy: That's the world we're talking about. We can ask what we want to get this. You know, anybody who's pregnant, anybody who's got young Children, please. We're gonna have those classes out very soon.
Jenna: And for anyone to do and for anyone in the audience who maybe isn't, practicing the mantras that is intrigued by this, at the Divine Mother Center there are many healers who can deliver the divine baby blessings and get direct transmissions. Cindy offers that.
Cindy: I do offer that as well. And even on our website page, there are things there for mothers to do that are free that you just you sign up for but it's no cost. So please engage the website at Divine Mother Center dot org or come to our classes. We will have specific classes on pregnancy, birthing these stages for the families because we just see that as a major way to bring this Divine Mother energy to the world.
Jenna: Cindy. I could not agree more. And you're making an incredible connection to the last episode which you probably haven't watched yet. I'll send you a link to check it out. This was an episode where I shared a little bit more about my journey of remembrance and karmic integration and some of the experiences that guided me to this lineage of Sri Kaleshwar. I won't get into all of it here. But I guess the punch line is that I accessed past life memories of doing divine birth practices and I share about that in this episode and how it's relevant for the work I'm now doing with the lineage. And just understanding, what's possible with bringing high divine souls to earth and energetically clearing so much… that we can have a huge shift on the planet through these practices. So I think it's a really interesting segue that you, you ended up wanting to talk so much about that and in this episode, because at the end of the last episode I kind of got to the point in my clarity of recognizing… I'm seeing the connection with these past lives I had and why these practices aside from enlightenment…. aside from having these miraculous experiences… aside from all of that… why are these practices so important? And part of it, I think is this idea of the next generation coming in with this support? Like, oh my goodness if so many parents embraced this, what a shift we would make… what a world it would be
Cindy: And we do get remembrances of our past lives. As we think about this and for people who think, “oh, I don't know if I've had a past life,” it's ok. You can still do the work in this lifetime too. But, but you know that idea that we're this soul that's been developing over many, many, many lifetimes to come to a point now in a timing that is now where all this energy has come out and all this information has come out and we're in a timing of change. I mean, I think it's no coincidence that certain souls show up in this time on the earth who have had a lot of past lifetimes of working with various spiritual traditions and methods. And are that flower that is bloomed to which the bee comes uninvited? Like you my darling.
Jenna: Oh, the flower is still, still blooming. The petals are still opening but we're working on it. You mentioned earlier that feeling of the tests and the integration. I don't know if you're familiar with that obstacle course race that's outside called the tough mudder. Have you heard of that?
Cindy: No, but I used to, I, because I did psychological training for organizations. I used to put them through ropes courses is what we call it, something like that.
Jenna: Similar, but it's in the mud. So it was like, it's a whole thing. Like people are really into it and they train for years for it and, there's people crying halfway through in the mud and at the end of it, you're, you're coming out a little bruised and angry and muddy but you conquered…You did it and I feel like over the last few years I just went through a spiritual tough mudder.
Cindy: But after at the end you're so much stronger.
Jenna: So, yes, absolutely. Cindy. Thank you for your support personally. As I've navigated my journey and my exploration of the practices and the lineage that has happened over the last six months. And thank you for being with us and sharing so much of your journey and your heart and your wisdom with the audience. It has just been such a joy to spend this time with you.
Cindy: It's my great pleasure. Absolutely. My great pleasure. I think Jenna, you are really an advanced soul who has found this in the right timing and I hope that you'll bring many others who are ready to find it too.
Jenna: Thank you. Thank you. We’ll let the Guru Parampara guide us along the way with their blessing.
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