Are Latinas Raised As Caregivers To Men vs. Leaders With Carmen Perez & Miguel Trinidad [Ep.05] 

In this episode, host Victoria Jenn delves deep into the heart of the Latino community, exploring the evolution of Latina roles from caregivers to leaders. With personal insights from guests Carmen Perez, a world renowned civil & human rights leader, and Miguel Trinidad, celebrity chef, the intricacies of tradition and modern-day gender roles, are challenged with humor and backed by data.

In this episode, Victoria Jenn, Carmen Perez, and Miguel Trinidad discuss:

• The personal highs and lows of being a caregiver vs. a leader.
• The weight of traditional gender roles in Latino families and the shifting dynamics.
• Strategies to find a balance between caregiving and leadership roles among Latinas.
• The confidence gap observed among young Latinas and ways to bridge it.

Follow Carmen Perez on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/msladyjustice1

Follow Miguel Trinidad on on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chefmigsnyc

More About Carmen Perez and Miguel Trinidad: 

Carmen Beatrice Perez is not just an American activist – she's a fiery Chicana feminist, a relentless crusader lighting the path towards social justice. Tackling towering issues from mass incarceration to women's empowerment, Carmen weaves a tale of dedication in every fight she takes on. As the dynamic President and CEO of The Gathering for Justice, an organization birthed from the visionary heart of Harry Belafonte, she's laser-focused on dismantling child incarceration and erasing racial disparities within the criminal justice labyrinth. And if that wasn’t enough to inspire, she stood tall as one of the four national co-chairs leading the sea of voices at the 2017 Women's March. Carmen Perez: a beacon of change, a voice for the voiceless, and a force to be reckoned with.

Miguel Trinidad is a culinary innovator with a flair for Filipino fusion. As the dynamic force behind Maharlika Filipino Moderno, his Dominican roots paired with a New York upbringing gives Filipino cuisine a delectable twist. A prodigy, Miguel dazzled as the Executive Chef at Soho's Lola shortly after mastering his craft at the Institute of Culinary Education. With two decades in the food biz, he's worn every hat, from bar back to maître ‘d. For Miguel, food is a constantly evolving art, always fueled by positivity. After an immersive journey across the Philippines and a pivotal encounter with renowned chef Claude Tayag, Miguel put Filipino cuisine on the map with his buzzworthy dish, Sisig. Celebrated by the New York Times and The Huffington Post, this man's magic lies in his passion and authenticity. These days you can catch Miguel hosting private cannabis infused food tastings around the country via his company, 99th Floor.

Resources:

[Free Training] 3 Secrets to Make the Transition From Corporate to Entrepreneur - www.victoriajenn.com/training

Work with Victoria Jenn - www.victoriajenn.com

More About Banking on Cultura:

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Are Latinas Raised As Caregivers To Men vs. Leaders With Carmen Perez & Miguel Trinidad

I'm pumped about this topic because you all know we like to get spicy on this show. We like to keep it raw and authentic. We're going to be talking about our Latinas raised to be caregivers to men instead of leaders. I have two amazing guests, Carmen Perez and Miguel Trinidad, who are joining me. These two are the perfect combo to have this conversation. Carmen and Miguel, welcome to the show.

Thank you for having us.

Bonchinche

We want to know what's going on in your lives. We always allow our guests to go first. Carmen and Miguel, which one wants to go first to tell us what the bonchinche is? It can be personal, professional, something positive, or related to mental health. It's your bonchinche. Tell us.

Let's go personal and positive. I'm going to be a dad for the second time. I have a little girl. There's another one on the way. We don't know what it's going to be, but we're excited.

I was talking to Miguel earlier. I was like, “The suspense.” I know you have kids. Could you wait to find out the sex of the baby?

No. As a person who carried a child, I always thought I knew what I was having. I'm having different cravings. My body looks different with my second child. I was like, “This is a girl.” He happened to be an amazing little boy. I was wrong. I'm outnumbered in my house because it's my husband, two boys, and a boy dog. Luckily, I got a girl dog. It's all good.

Carmen, what's the bonchinche?

I've been going through a lot. I don't know if it's positive or negative, but one of the things is, as somebody who organized a women's march, I was visible for quite some time. Being a woman of color in the space, as quickly as they elevate you, they chop you down. I was going through some rough times, specifically because of the death threats that I was receiving at a high level.

As a Latina and a Chicana Mexican American woman, counseling isn't something that you're ever encouraged to do. I had a sister killed and buried on my birthday. I've been through stuff. I've made it through. I usually focus on my spiritual practice. I started looking up mental health counselors. I'm like, “Am I supposed to be doing this?” I was like, “I'm going to do it. I'm going to reach out. I'm going to schedule an appointment.”

I waited for the call, and they never called. I was like, “I got to continue on my spiritual practice, jog, and do what I got to do. I'll try that again.”It's huge for me to put my guard down. At the end of the day, I am proud of myself for taking that step. One day, I'll be able to take that forward when they're ready to receive me because it wasn't meant to be

You need to shoot your shot again and make it happen. My bonchinche is I'm turning 40 in 2023. One of the things that I'm looking forward to is I decided to take a trip to Costa Rica for two weeks. I'm doing a retreat that is all focused on spirituality, becoming one with yourself, finding purpose and more meaning in your life, and getting in tune with yourself.

I'm looking forward to that because I feel like when I embark on this next decade, I want it to be as meaningful and as full as possible. I feel like that needs to start with you being fully balanced within them, like mind, body, and spirit. I'm going to be with the yogis, hug some trees, run around the jungle naked, and be free.

Are you going to do some ayahuasca?

I looked into that. I was going to do it, but I came across this retreat that I was going in on. It was almost $10,000 to do this, but I was in. I was like, “Let's go.” I started doing some digging and researching. I found out that it had over 3,000 positive reviews. All the reviews were saying, “Once you get to dig a little deeper, they would have you write a review when you're high.” You're going to be like, “This is the most amazing experience. You have to come. It's breathtaking.”

They're not taking testimonials when you come down, and what happens afterward. There was a little bit of controversy. I feel good about my life and how my brain works. I was nervous. I was like, “I don't know if I want to do this.” I came back different because there were some horror stories. I was like, “This is not it. I need something that has a component of that vibe.”

One of the retreats I'm doing is called cacao medicine, which is not like ayahuasca, but it’s the same theme, and it's going to have you connect internally and get all the vibes. I'm excited about that. That's my bonchinche. I'm looking forward to that. Hopefully, I will come back a brand new, restored, fully replenished Victoria Jenn, ready to take on the world.

You deserve that.

Latinas As Caregivers II 

Let's get into our conversation. When I was thinking about what we were going to discuss, I was like, “This needs to be addressed because we talk about it behind closed doors, but we never talk about it on a public platform.” We know this is happening in the cultura. We know this exists. We're in an interesting time where things are shifting in terms of gender roles. How are you bringing your cultural traditions into this new modern era where things are changing rapidly?

I was doing some research. I came across this study that I want to kick off our conversation with. It was a study in the Oxford Journal that was done in 2016 of Mexicanos. The study was meant to discover the orientation of the caregiver role amongst Latinas, specifically Mexican descent. One of the results of this study was that many of the Latinas felt that it was their responsibility as a wife, a daughter, and a sister to serve as a caregiver. Let's open up with that. When you hear that, what do you think? I want to go to Miguel first because we purposely wanted to have a male perspective in this conversation. It's important. What do you think about that?

As Latinos, it’s 100% correct. We're raised in a way where the women take care of the men. Growing up, when I went to the Dominican Republic to visit the family, I saw that your food was placed in front of you. If you try to pick up that plate, they were like, “No, the women will take care of it.” That was instilled not only in us but also in my sisters. They are caregivers. They feel that they have to care for them. It pissed me off in many different ways, watching my sister cater to her ex-husband.

Why? Is it because he wasn't fond of him or because he was a man?

A little bit of column A and column B, but more of column A. I wasn't very fond of him. I didn't think he was the greatest man to her. He walked in and sat at the head of the table. His food was brought out to him. Rice in one dish, beans in another, and salad. That's the way my mother catered to us growing up. That's how we were fed. The men in the house were always taken care of first. Whenever there was a family event, men ate first, women were second, and the men didn't help in the kitchen. I come from a different world where I work in the kitchen. For me, being that caretaker with food reverses the role. It puts me in a place where I want to make sure everything is right and perfect. Whoever sits at my table gets to eat at the same time.

Does that carry over to home because that's your professional setting?

Yeah, it's a balance in my house. My lady doesn't cater to me. We cater to each other. We cater to the home and the family. We do as much for each other as we can. There is no, “That's your job. You're the woman of the house. You're the man. You have to do that.” We both partake when we work together to accomplish those goals.

Was that always the case because that sounds like a mature position? Miguel is a Dominico, and that was also set up. If you were raised and being catered to by women, did you carry that into your relationships in your adolescence and maybe in your twenties?

No, I've always been that guy. I got up and was like, “I want to cook. I want to clean up after myself and fold my own clothes.” Me and my brother are completely different. My brother has taken that out into his life. He gets served when he's home. His wife takes care of him. Their relationship is great. There's nothing wrong with that. It wasn't for me. I always felt like I had to do more.

Where's that from?

I have no idea. When it came to food, I didn't want to wait to be served. I'll go and make it myself. I didn't want you to cook. If I'm hungry, I'm going to go ahead and do it myself. I've always had this love for cuisine, food, experimentation, and expressing art through it. Being in the kitchen was my peaceful place.

Carmen, what do you think about this stat about Latinas feeling it is their responsibility?

It made me cringe because I'm the youngest of five, and my parents are several years apart. My father is Chicano, and my mother is from Mexico. They have two different upbringings. They're not the same. Even though we're Latino, it's not the same.

Is there a difference between Mexicano and Chicano?

Yeah. My father was born in the US in 1924. My family was here before it became the United States. Their traditions are different. They speak differently. They make similar foods, but there's a language. Men are a little bit more modernized.

This is on the Chicano side.

My mother is from Mexico, where she was taught to serve. As a little girl, being the youngest, my older siblings are a lot older than me, 14, 12, 7, and 2 years older than me. Being the youngest, I consistently got catered to. I wasn't raised in the kitchen, but we'd go to church every single day. My mother would say things. I was like, I don't know what that means. By the time you get to the fifth one, parents are older, and siblings speak English. I spoke English, and my parents spoke Spanish. I'd be like, I'm not telling Don anything. What my mom was setting me up was to serve the world and not to serve men.

I watched football with my brothers. It was always the Cowboys playing. My older brother cooked similarly to you. My older brother was a chef. He would cook for us little ones. My dad cooked. As I think about who I am, it wasn't until I became older that I wanted to serve a man. I remember being in college. I went to UC Santa Cruz.

Latinas As Caregivers II 

My brothers used to be Raider fans. Oakland is near. Santa Cruz is about an hour away. My brothers would come from the LA area all the way up to Oakland. They used to tailgate and barbecue. My brother's friends would be like, “Why isn't she cooking?” My brother was like, “Do you want to eat good food? She isn’t a cook like that.” It's because when I was younger, I used to tell my brothers I was educated, not domesticated. I would reject the idea that I had to serve. However, my older sister served my brother-in-law, and she was a stay-at-home wife. I feel like that job was so much harder than maybe my job as a student or whatever job I took.

My mother traveled the world praying for people. I saw my father take care of us. My father cooked and cleaned. As I got older and started examining gender roles, I didn't grow up with many gender roles. We were outside mowing the lawn and washing the cars. I was raised as a tomboy. Now that I have my own children, I want to serve them. I want to serve my husband.

There are times when he cooks, and there are times when I cook. There are moments when nobody cooks, and we order. For us, it's about a balance and partnership that we have with one another. I saw that partnership with my mother and father. There was a partnership, although she was raised to serve. She always served my dad and gave him the best plate. We're always like, “What's he got on his plate?” As I got older and I started identifying as a Chicana feminist, it is inclusive of having men in my life. It's not the absence of men.

I learned that a lot of these traditions that we have now take on were brought to us from colonization. There were no gender roles. There were clan mothers and chiefs. In our indigenous culture, we were a village and a community. There was no hierarchy. I talk a lot about that in some of the writings that I'm doing around the gender roles and how oftentimes some of the ways in which we view women have been brought on based on religion and colonization.

Do you think that Latinas are raised to be caregivers to men versus leaders?

Achieving Balance I 

I do. It wasn't my experience. That's the reason why I am the type of leader that I am. There was no hindrance to my ability to do what I wanted to do or who I wanted to become. My older sister didn't have the same expectations as I did. My older sister was not allowed to play sports. She was trained to serve. By the time it got to the fifth one, they were like, “What's she doing?” I was out doing all these other things. I do believe Latinas are cultivated to serve specifically their man and not fulfill their own dreams.

Let's take a deeper dive into this because it's bigger than catering to a man and how it plays in different areas of our lives. When you get a bunch of Latinas together, it's interesting because it does depend on how they were raised. I find that they are competing for the attention of men, to be chosen, and show up as this caregiver supreme. They’re like, “I'm the queen caregiver. Choose me.”

What do you think that does to Latinas and the cultura in general if we continue to carry on those traditions? It's interesting what you said. I was raised by my dad. Every summer, I would go to Puerto Rico. That is where I would be with my Tias, their husbands, and cousins. All of my Tias would cater to their men. It was always them getting served first and not working. My Tios were the breadwinner. They would be at work all day. We'd be at the water park with my Tia.

It felt so loving and natural. It was something that I should do. The balance between how you show up as a caregiver comes naturally and still being a leader. How do you cater to both of those roles? Miguel, given your experience and how you grew up and the woman in your life, how do you think we need to create this balance where it's okay to be both and/or it's important for you to create balance so that you're able to be both a caregiver if that's what you wish also a leader?

In my experience, my mother was a leader. Not only was she a caregiver, but she was a leader. She ran the house. My father was a breadwinner, but my mother did work her way and opened up two businesses. She opened up grocery stores. She was a force to be reckoned with. It’s not only in the house being the caregiver but also being the leader of the house, giving us that education to strive for better and work to make our own money to be our own boss.

There has to be a healthy balance on both ends because men need to learn how to be caretakers. This can't be you come home, kick your feet up, and everything that's done for you, which still happens a lot. We are in a modern world. Women in this day and age aren't doing that shit. My lady is Italian. Going to visit her side of the family, I see the same thing. The women cater to these men. However, they're all independent, strong, powerful women who also lead in whatever field they're in.

It's a strategy, to be honest with you, that women cater to men. When men are their happiest, one of the things is through food. We talked about this. Food brings people together. It's an organizing strategy to get what you want from your partner. I think about that. My mother and my father worked, but my mother came home and she cooked a meal. She served my father. She was able to do whatever she wanted to do because she kept him happy. I'm like, “That is a strategy.” When I want to do something or have time with my friends, I organize my husband. I'm like, “What do you want to eat? I got you.”

What men are trying to teach women is that if you want your life to be a little easier and you want to get some things to your advantage, you have to give in and keep your husband happy. It's fascinating because it wasn't until I had children. I started having children at the age of 40. Me and my mom were close. It wasn't until I was 40 that I realized I had children. My mother was giving me games all along when it came to men and the things I had to do for them. I was like, “No, that's not me.” I was like, “It is because I'm serving my children.” I get up and do all these things that I was like, “This is what moms do for their sons. That’s what their sons want from their women.”

Hearing you talk about it makes me think, “That is a strategy that we use to get what we want.” Our moms have been giving us games all this time. In actuality, you're right. Women have been balancing leadership and serving. I am trained in servant leadership. It's always about being in service of, whether it's in my home or the community.

What's fascinating about it is that I want to do those things for my husband. I want him to eat good food. Sometimes, I also have to make sure he's eating the green stuff because, at this moment, health is important as we're getting older. I remember there was a point in time when I would reject these things because I thought they were expected of me. Now, I think about the game my mom gave me. Watching my sister and how happy she and my brother-in-law are, the partnership they have, and the conversations I have with my husband about him helping out when I need help.

For the most part, I work in Manhattan. He's able to take the kids to school. They go to school in Jersey. He's able to pick up things. I feel like, at the end of the day, it allows me to show up with my full self. I’m being able to serve and also become a leader. My mom was a leader. She was traveling the world, praying for people. She'd come home and still play her position.

Miguel, there was something you wanted to say. Do you remember?

I remember in my youth and previous relationships, there was an expectation of men. It’s like, “You need to treat me like a queen. I am a queen, and I should treat it as such.” You're like, “What does that mean? I have to provide for you, take care of you, defend you, and protect you, but you have to treat me like a king.” It goes both ways. If you want to be treated with respect and loyalty, you need to give that back. That can be an exchange of serving. It goes back and forth.

I remember repeating this to one of my Tias. She goes, “Don't get it twisted.” We treat the men like kings, and we serve them, but there's a purpose for it. We need them to go ahead and do things that we can't do, won't do, or don't want to do.” There was a mentality. It made me think of going back to the Dominican Republic.

Did you hear that song by Bad Bunny, Tití Me Preguntó? That shit is real. You would go back, and they'd cater to you, but they'd also ask you, “How many girlfriends do you have?” I was like, “No, I have one.” They’re like, “No, you're single. You're young. You have to have a lot of girlfriends. You have to find the one that's going to take care of you and the house and give you kids.”

I'm like, “How many girlfriends does Tio have?” She’s like, “I'll fucking kill him. He's married now. That time was done.”It goes back to that mentality that the men are the men. They should be seen as such. I wanted to touch on that because of what we talked about mental health earlier. I've been going to therapy for years, which is something that's shunned in the Latino community.

I was talking to my therapist about stresses in the house. Her response completely caught me off guard. This is a therapist in training who's with a therapist. She goes, “You're the man. You're not supposed to deal with those things.” I'm glad this was a one-on-one session because if my woman was in the room, she would've lost her shit. She goes, “No, you need to put her in a place and tell her that she can't do that.” I was like, “That's not the way this works. We're not in the ice ages. We're in modern times. Things are different. She's a strong, independent woman. She can handle her shit without me. I'm there to support her, and she's there to support me. That's how it works.” She’s like, “I didn't see it that way.”

What's fascinating about that is the fact that when I think about my mom and my dad's relationship, they are dependent on one another. There was this dependency. My mother did expect my father to work and provide. Even though she also worked, there was more of a reliance on my father than on her. She handled other things.

I think about that because, culturally, we're different. She grew up in Mexico. She was one of the younger ones out of thirteen children. I'm assuming my grandmother didn't work because she kept having babies. I think about my grandfather. He was a horse breeder, and my grandmother had thirteen children.

One of my mom's sisters had a child out of wedlock. That brought a black scar onto the family. My mom is the younger one. My mother was the one who would cook, clean, and do all these things. When she came to the US, she continued to do that for my dad's family members. What was fascinating was that my mother talked a lot about how she suffered in America. I was like, “If I were you, I would've left.” It’s not that my dad harmed her, but she wasn't welcomed by society. I would've gone back home to Mexico.

I noticed that, for her, there was this dependency. She loved my father, but those were things you couldn't do. You said something that resonated with me. Women are working now. I think about how the burrito was made. It was because women started working. You had to put everything and give folks food.

That's how the burrito was made.

The burrito was made because there were working family members.

Achieved Balance II

When you say working family, what do you mean? They needed to feed you. They stuffed a whole bunch of stuff in a wrap and gave it to you.

Back in the day, you'd make your frijoles on a plate, and you had time. When the woman started working, she had to eat it fast. There's something called the second shift, where women go to work, come home, and take care of the kids. There have been some changes. As a Latina, you could be raised to serve and serve your man and do all these things, but there are also times that change. We're in a working environment. Some of us have careers. We are told to go and live your dreams. Your career becomes most important sometimes.

It’s not to say that your family is secondary, but some women aren't even having children. They're not having relationships because they've had to provide for their families and parents. They've now become accustomed to doing things on their own. When they're in a relationship with somebody, they want a partnership. They're not willing to accept some of these things like, “What I expect from you,” unless it's a mutual understanding.

I think about that often because of the trajectory of my life. It's not the same as my friends. I am lucky that I got to go to college, but my friends didn't get that access growing up. They have a different life than I do. I waited for years to have children, and it was when I was ready. I wasn't ready when I was 30. As a Latina, they will tell you, “At twenty, you need to start popping out these babies.”

When I was a teenager, they were like, “Where do you start your family?” I'm like, “I'm trying to eat my sandwich.”

That's Latinos in general because your mothers will push you to have kids at an early age. They’re like, “You are twenty now. When are you going to settle down and get married?” I didn't have my first child until 47.

My dad had me at 42.

My dad had me at 53. He was the best father. He has so much patience.

I see men around me who are now taken on the second and third shifts. It's balancing out watching Liz's uncles. Her grandfather won't change a diaper. It's like, “That's woman's.” Unless he gets stuck with it, he has to do it. All of my boys have kids. They take them to school, cook for them, and take on that second shift. We give breaks to the women in our lives who do work and sometimes need a moment for themselves. That way, we can go out also. You are serving your husband so that we can do something. We do the same thing. There's a shift.

Showing Up I

It relies on when you were born, where you were raised, and who raised you. That has the biggest influence. If you're here in the States and you have access, I do see there's like this tension that's happening within the community now where Latinos are like, “I was raised with this machismo. I was raised with this privilege. I was raised with women catering to me. That's my expectation of my wife.”

To your point earlier, Carmen, I'm similar in the sense that at first, I would resent that because I'm like, “Why can't we do that for each other? Why does it always need to be on me?” There's this tension that is happening because there are people who are stuck in traditional ways and love the traditional way, and there are people who are in the middle who are confused, and they're like, “We want to uphold some of these traditional values. We're trying to figure out how the modern concept fits in.” You have people who are like, “No, we're completely untraditional. We're starting our own traditions.” How do you navigate space? In the community, it's difficult. There's so much complexity. It's like, “How do I show up now? My identity is going through a transformation.”

How do you show up when your elders are saying, “She's supposed to be doing that?” I still want to beat that into people's heads. You got to jump in and do it. There is no right or wrong way to navigate it. It's figuring it out along the way. See what you will deal with and won't and what your likes and dislikes are. Along the way, you have to approach it with mutual respect.

I'm a debater. I should have taken that in high school. I love to debate, but I also love to learn from our elders. I like to ask a lot of questions. I will sit there and learn about why a tradition has to be passed down. My mentor, Harry Belafonte, always says, “Meet them where they're at and champion them to your cause.” I'll hear their perspective and politely insert my own perspective into the conversation.

I was working two full-time jobs with two babies under the age of two. I'm talking about being the CEO of an organization and being the chief of staff of another organization. It didn't even seem like enough. I'm doing all the things. I was breastfeeding one child while I was pregnant with the other. Meanwhile, I was also a visible Latina at the helm of the women's march and getting death threats. There was a lot coming to me.

I remember hearing, “I had three jobs. I did that. I have these many kids. That's the way it is.” This is from a male perspective. That's not what I was trained. Having multiple jobs is a mental health survival. It's me being occupied and trying not to think about certain things. When I lost my sister, I got three jobs to not think about her loss. When I was getting attacked, I was like, “I need to get all these jobs to not think about it.” I was also a full-time mom because we were in a pandemic. I was able to take the kids to work.

What's fascinating is that there are these traditions that are passed down and expectations that women are superhuman, especially Latina women. You're supposed to suck it up, do this, do that, don't complain, be grateful, and be quiet. There's a time when people blow up. We need to teach something different.

 

For my older sister, she raised five beautiful children. She stayed at home until the baby was old enough, and she went back to work. My brother-in-law didn't change a diaper. That was not his role. He was a provider. The kids all went off to college and did phenomenal things. My trajectory was different than my older sister's. Her role in my life was that she was my sister, mom, mentor, and counselor. She was all things, even for me as a younger sibling.

I think about the women in our lives who have done so much but haven't received recognition. What I want for Latinas is to get the recognition. There's unpaid labor that we have, and we do at home. Some of us want the balance, and some of us don't. Some of us are like, “I was raised to serve. I'm going to serve and treat my partner with all the respect that he deserves because he provides for me.”

That's great, but I also want people to feel proud of anything that they choose to do with their lives because there are partners like you. My husband is one of them who is like, “This is a partnership.” People are like, “Your wife needs to do this.” He's like, “We got different gender roles. We are partners in this. We are going to collab. We'll make dinner together. There are times when he's tired, and I'm down to make whatever.” Whatever works for you that is grounded with love and respect, let it work for you. It doesn't work for me sometimes, and there are times that it does, where I'm like, “I'll pretend I'm the secretary.”

As a woman, people assume you're in consistent servant roles. They don't see you as CEOs, entrepreneurs, or business owners. I'm always like, “Are you the secretary? Are you the person I should give my number to?” I'd be like, “Depending on the mood, I'll play with it.” I believe that women, particularly Latinas, have been balancing the role of leadership. My mom ran the house in my home.

There is the recognition point because society has made it seem like the caretaker at home is the weak link. You weren't as strong as a person who was in the street bringing home the money. Your value wasn't the same. It was an unbalanced value. When the roles have shifted and now men are finding themselves in that role, they're like, “Women are superpowers.”

Women are superpowers. They stay home, be quiet, don't complain, and do everything. As men, we're expected to be strong all the time and never be vulnerable. When we are vulnerable, a lot of women don't know how to accept it.

I've seen that where women are like, “You're not supposed to be weak. Be strong.” 

Showing Up II

What do you mean you're worrying about something? This is something that my lady and I are dealing with now. There are a lot of concerns that I have about the future and things. She's used to me being the decision maker, the strong one, and the one who's always positive. Now that role is reversing, she's like, “I don't know how to handle this. What are you worried about? If you are worried, I have to worry more.” It's like we're trying to find that balance because roles change as time progresses. I was always told, “You have to be strong. You have to protect and fight for the family.” Sometimes, you don't want to. Sometimes, you do want to cry, let it out, vent, and be vulnerable.

What I love about the time that we're in is that we're finally giving men that space because we never gave men that space. That is a shift that is taking a lot of time for people to adjust to men and women. Men don't even know how to handle themselves. They’re, “Do you want me to be vulnerable? It's okay to do this.”

If we do that, our elders look at us like pendejo.

We have a responsibility to identify what traditional values make up who we are and what traditional values we want to challenge to make us a better version of ourselves. There are things from the past that make our character and feed our cultura that we love, like food. We love to serve, host, and welcome. We want to give you besitos. We're welcoming cultura, which are beautiful parts of the cultura. You have these other areas where they will tell you, “You should have multiple women. What do you mean you got one girlfriend?” We'll celebrate that for men. When they enter into this new space, it's like, “This is not right. I shouldn't be having this many women.”

I wonder. What if we raise girls to have the option of having multiple partners, being independent, and being all these different things?? I had gotten both versions of dependent and independent. What I love now is that in my mid-40s with two little ones, a 4 and a 2-year-old, for the first time in my life, I wanted to stop working to raise them. All I knew was work. I've been working since I was eleven. I'm like, “I'm going to work all my life. I'm going to do this and that.” I've been having conversations with my husband. I throw hints. I'll be like, “I want to stay home with them.” It's scary for me because I don't know anything else. I wouldn't know what to do with myself and in school.

Not only that, but your defense mechanism was work. It's like, “What am I going to do if some shit happened, and I'm home?

I went to a party at my kid's school. It was super cute with the DJ and pizza. The teachers were all talking to me. They're like, “I stayed with my babies up until they were six years old.” Every one of them told me that. I was like, “I need to reevaluate this stuff.” This is something I rejected. I rejected these gender norms or social norms that people had on me. I used to be like, “I'm not going to do that.” Now, I don't say anything and try not to judge because I was like, “It's all coming back. Everything I said I was going to do, I do now that I have kids.”

There's a cultural piece you get taught as a Latina, and there's an instinct in your heart that comes from motherhood that I'm trying to balance. There was a rejection of men and their assumptions of who I was. There's more of an acceptance because that's all they've known and have been trained to understand about women. There's more of an empathy.

My husband is understanding, but there are some expectations he has of me that I'm still trying to accommodate myself. It's because he was raised in the church and in a certain way similar to the Latino experience, like mom serves dad. I'm like, “We got some of the same things.” When I'm expected to do things, it’s when I have a hard time. When there's a mutual understanding or craving in my heart or my body that wants to do it, I'm more willing to do it. I don't know if other Latinas experienced that or if it is because of being the youngest. It's not the same as the oldest or only child. There are different expectations. I always think about why I am different.

Growth Environment 

It backs down to what your environment was. You also were raised in New York and the West Coast. You've had a lot of different influences. Feminist and Chicana, nobody says that. You are this representation of service. You're a community builder and an organizer. You care about justice. All of these things were influenced by you as a child.

What I find interesting is that all of us have to decide who we want to be, why we want to be that, and how we are going to ensure that we are being the change we want to see. If we are not hinged to those traditional values anymore, how are we going to show up? I'm the only one single here. It's interesting on the dating scene because I date a lot of Black men. They'll tell me how they love Latinas because we're raised to cater to our man versus other cultures. When I hear that, I’ll be like, “Yeah, because Latinas are the shit.”

When I think about it, I'm like, “Are we doing more of a disservice to Latinas?” A lot of Latinas are walking out here insecure. They're not asking for the money that they deserve. They're not negotiating at the table. They're being quiet. They're working with their head down. They're not going for the promotion. They're lacking confidence. It's a gift and a curse. The gift is we are raised culturally to cater to our men, and that brings us joy. I love to cater.

When my dad's at my house, he's a freaking king. I'm cooking for him. I’m like, “What do you need?” It’s the same thing for my man. On the other token of that, I was also raised by my father. A lot of that masculinity, going after what I want, the aggressiveness, and all of that comes from being raised so much by him. I have the balance, but a lot of Latinas don't have the balance. Is it doing more damage than good?

I have a little girl. I'm raising her to be strong, independent, caring, and loving. My sister is an amazing woman. Don't get me wrong. I don't want her to be like my sister, catering to a man. I want her to be an individual. I want her to be strong. Liz wants to put her in in gymnastics. I'm like, “I want to put in boxing classes and kick ass.” I’m like, “I don't want you to be in a position where you have to run away from a guy, or some man is going to overpower you. I don't want you to be able to knock him out. Not that I condone violence, but kick his fucking ass and put his hands on it.”

I don't want her to be that traditional Latina who does whatever the man tells you to because that's not what I grew up with. I do have cousins like that. My father was terrified of my mother growing up because she was strong and tough. Tough is a nice word. My mother was a hard woman. My daughter needs to see that there has to be a balance. I want her to not have to go through the same things that my sisters went through.

There's a major confidence gap with Latinas, even as it pertains to voting. There is a confidence gap with Latinas when it comes to their value. I do think, to a certain extent, there is a disservice when you consistently have to rely on somebody for your livelihood and happiness. My mom would always say things, the funny thing is I don't speak Spanish that well, but the words that my mom would consistently repeat to me are things that I could flow through my tongue. She'd always say, “You need to work hard. Nothing is ever going to be handed to you.”

My husband bought a house. I was proud, but I was like, “I have to keep my condo in Manhattan.” There's so much suffering when you consistently have to cater to somebody else's needs, and you're not able to build yourself up to have the confidence to express your own needs. That's what was challenging what I witnessed in the church. Going to church every day, you would see this with families.

I coached varsity high school girls. They were predominantly Latinas in Watsonville, California. I remember going to do home visits because the girls were not showing up for basketball practice. They had to take care and clean. I remember going to speak to a family. The mom was speaking to me. The husband was there. He wanted the guy coach to speak to him. He doesn't know Spanish. That's the reason he isn't talking to you. Now I'm talking to you.

I remember calling my mom and asking her, “Mom, I played ball all my life.” She didn't understand. She was like, “Why are you in the streets?” I said, “Mom, what should I say to these parents?” She's like, “Tell them that I was mistaken for limiting your ability to be on the court and be free. I should have never taken that from you.”

I kept showing up and trying to tell these parents that their kids had ended up graduating high school and going to college. That wasn't their path. These girls' paths were not to go to university. Their path was to get pregnant, have kids, be home, and take care of the family. It's a disservice. Now, Latinas make up a significant amount of the population that is graduating college. That is recent. We're doing a disservice when we're not giving Latina girls the opportunity to have the balance to decide for themselves. If you want to serve, and that's what you love, do that. If you want to go, pursue your own career, and have a partnership, do that.

You and I talked about this. Sometimes, I don't know my value. I sometimes don't know when to ask. I wasn't taught. That wasn't what was being taught at home. My brothers were a lot like you. They're like, “Let's put her in basketball and boxing. Let's rough her up. We're going to teach her how to defend herself and how to make her own money.”

I am grateful for that. There was also what I needed from the women in my home to show me that I was enough. It wasn't to be dependent on a partner, which mothers are telling you. If they're not hitting you, you should stay. If he's cheating, who cares? The way in which we raise girls compared to the way in which we raise boys is not balanced. I love this conversation because this is a part of me that I don't ever get to share. I learned so much from you, but it's so important to continuously talk about this in our homes.

Final Thoughts

Miguel, any final thoughts?

I feel like I've seen this movie. There's a movie on Amazon or a series called The Power.

It is good. I'm obsessed with it right now.

It's mirroring what we're talking about right now. It's a shift in gender roles. Women are becoming powerful and Alphas. I'm like, “That's going to be my little girl.” It's important to have these conversations, determine what values we want to instill in us, our children, and the next generation, champion those things, and make sure that everybody has access to people like us that are willing to push the envelope and talk about it.

Carmen, final thoughts?

I want my Latina sisters to feel empowered and worthy and know that there are those of us who are advocating for them. It may not show up in our lifetime, but as long as we continue to work on it and work with our partners on developing strong, independent Latinas, there's going to be a future for us. We're going to be powerful and strong. We're going to feel self-worth. I wish I had had this conversation many years ago. I hope that people get to ask themselves what they want. It's something that you said. Thank you for giving us this opportunity.

Thank you both. I'll put in the show notes how people can get in contact with you both because they are incredible. It's been an honor having you on the show. I'm pumped. My final word is similar to yours, Carmen. Latinas, you are powerful, strong, worthy, and deserving. In that same breath, Latinos, so are you. We need you as much as you need us.

As long as we are collaborating toward a beneficial effort, we'll be able to move the cultura forward, and the complexities and values that tend to pit us against each other will soon cease. There will be more opportunities for us to create more magic and vibrancy in the cultura and push forward what makes us so amazing. Thanks for tuning in, and I'll see you at the next show.

Important Links

• Carmen Perez - Instagram
• Miguel Trinidad – Instagram
• www.VictoriaJenn.com/training
• www.VictoriaJenn.com
• www.BankingOnCulturaMedia.com
• https://www.YouTube.com/@BankingOnCultura