Divine Lineage Student Interviews
Discover the Real Life and Spiritual Technologies of Yeshua and the Holy Family, brought to the world by Saint Sri Kaleshwar.
Watch the interviews on the Supernatural Souls Podcast on Youtube, or Listen on your favorite podcast app!
Transcript of Interview with David Peralta: Divine Mother Darshan and Soul Centered Leadership
Heart Opening to the Master and Meeting Sri Kaleshwar
Jenna: I'm so looking forward to this conversation because you are one of Swami's students who spent extensive time with him at his Ashram in India. You've had a really interesting journey that has landed you in a place where you're now helping people evolve their lives for the better. And I think it's just so exciting to meet people who are dedicated to that journey. So, thank you first off. And secondly, I'd love to start with how you got here. What is your origin story? How did you end up in India at this Ashram connected to this amazing saint? How did your life take you there? Yeah.
David: So I was teaching yoga in 2006. I had just graduated from college. And I had already started on a spiritual path three years before. I had studied Zen Buddhism. I had read as many books as I possibly could about spirituality. Because I was starting to have certain experiences that nobody could explain to me… energy flowing through me that nobody could tell me what they really were. And so I was really hungry to learn more.
And so I was teaching yoga at the studio where I lived in Pasadena, California. And then in March or April of 2006, a woman came in who wanted to teach a class about the five elements. And that woman's name was Lora Stone and she was a student of Sri Kaleshwar. I remember when she came in because I saw in her eyes a light that I had never seen in anybody else's eyes before. There was a depth and a quality to her eyes that I knew. OK, I gotta take this class. I've got to learn more about what's going on here. So the following week she comes back and I'm helping her to set up and she's setting up her altar and she pulls out a picture of a man I'd never seen before. It's Shirdi Sai Baba. And the moment that picture comes out, I feel an explosion of love in my heart, the kind of which I had never felt before.
I'd never experienced this level of love. I'd never experienced my heart opening so instantaneously. And in that moment, I knew that this was my master.. that this was, this was my master. I didn't know how else to put it at that time, which was different for me because I had never gone looking for a master. I had never gone looking for a teacher. But I knew this man and I didn't know how I knew him. So I knew if just by looking at his picture, I was having this kind of experience, I had to learn everything I could about anything related to him. So I sat, I took the course.
I started the five elements mantras right away and almost immediately started having incredibly profound experiences… reaching states and feeling energies like I had never felt before. And so that was a clear proof to me that there is really something going on here. A month later Sri Kaleshwar happened to be visiting the US in Malibu. And so I thought, “OK, I’m not looking for a master, but if he's coming and he has to do with that man in that picture, I'm going find out what he has to say.” And so I went to that event and initially, honestly, I actually did not resonate so much with him directly. Because I was very skeptical.
Jenna: I just have to appreciate you quickly, David for that because I think number one, that's so honest and real. Like we're human and skeptical, you know, it happens.
David: Yes. Exactly. And there was a healthy dose of skepticism but then there was also a kind of resistance to, like, I don't want to get lost in something… it was kind of fear based. Like, I don't know what all of this is.
Jenna: Yeah, that makes sense.
Experiences with Shaktipat and Kaala Chakra Process
David: But he gave a process in that event and it was my first fire puja. And the first time I received Shaktipat directly from him. And again, all these experiences were just so soul lifting. So again, it's like, something's definitely going on here. And in December of 2006, he comes back and he gives a Kaala chakra process. And at this point, I'm starting to feel the energy every single time I'm around him and recognizing it and knowing that there is really something on another level that's happening here. And I remember that it was the first time he had ever publicly drawn the Kaala chakra. And the moment he put pen to paper, suddenly I felt all of this depression coming up and all of this pain and I didn't know what was happening. And then he continued drawing the yantra. I continued to have this experience and in the moment he finished drawing the mantra, it was like some layer had been lifted.
Jenna: I just got huge chills, as you said. That's incredible.
David: So I was sold at this point. And I decided in March of that year to go the following year in 2007 to go to the Ashram for Shivaratri. And my plan was to go for just three weeks. But I ended up staying for six months and it was during that time that I was there, it was part of the first Soul University that Swami taught. And that's when, I had a moment when I realized, “OK, I can either continue to be on the fence about him, right?” Like I'm sold in terms of the energy, but in terms of taking on a guru and taking on a master, there was still a lot of hesitation and then there came a moment where he's teaching about the depth of this relationship and the value of this relationship. And I'm still nervous about jumping in completely. But then there came a moment where I said, “OK, if what he's saying is true about this relationship and about how this is the doorway to enter into what I've always been looking for. Then I can either continue to be on the fence and never experience the full depth of that relationship or I can trust that I've been guided in my life so far, I've been guided to him and I can trust him.” And so there came a moment where in my heart I said, “OK, I am trusting you completely. I'm giving you, I'm giving myself to you completely.” And that became the center of my life. Uh after that was, uh was being connected to this lineage.
Jenna: Wow. And what were, what, what were you looking for? When you were seeking and not quite sure that you needed a master. What was that seeking inside of you?
David: So that seeking started when I was 11 or 12 years old.
And I remember reading a Time magazine article about the origins of the universe. And I remember having such a yearning to discover where it all came from, what was behind it all. What was the purpose of everything? And this was a yearning that I carried with me throughout my entire teenage years and my entire young life. And I carried this frustration with me that nobody had the answers.
A lot of people had speculation, but nobody spoke from that place of knowing this. Nobody spoke from that place of direct experience of understanding how this creation works. Where is this creation coming from? Why does this creation even exist? What is the purpose of being here on earth? And when I met Swami, I finally met somebody who I could feel and see and experience.
He is directly connected to that source. There is no separation between that source and him. And so what is coming through him and what he is teaching are the answers that I've been looking for. And also in 2004, I started to have experiences of healing energy coming through me. I was at a psychotherapy workshop, a very intensive psychotherapy workshop. And during the climax exercises where everybody was really releasing the pain that they were opening up to, suddenly, this energy starts channeling through me and it starts coming through my hands. And suddenly a part of me just knows what to do and it knows how to channel the energy and it knows what mudras to make. And I had never studied anything. I never had even been aware that this was a possibility. So what is happening, right? What is this energy that's trying to come through? And that had also started… this journey to discover I could feel I'm meant to be a healer.
I don't even know what that means. And then suddenly, here is this saint saying his mission is to create masters and healers. And so that these were like everything that I was looking for in my life was coming together. And this lack of satisfaction with the way that life had been kind of oriented, the story and the script that I had been following that, you know, I have to get good grades. I have to go to college.
I have to do all these things. Like there's all these obligations and expectations that I feel like I'm being, I'm supposed to meet, I'm meeting them, I'm doing them. I'm not just meeting them. I'm doing really well. I'm excelling in these expectations that I'm being told are the key to success in life and I am miserable. I am so unhappy and I'm so depressed. So what is the real purpose? What am I supposed to be doing differently? And that's what I discovered when I was at the Ashram in India.
Jenna: Wow. Isn't it just profound how disconnected we've gotten and that path of meeting all the expectations that our civilization tells us or the milestones we're supposed to achieve and accomplish in life. It's like there's gotta be something more, there's gotta be something more than that. I'm reflecting on that time for me and the loneliness I felt.. There was that same, I think, frustration that you felt. But also this kind of existential loneliness and like, how are we all doing this and feeling lonely and sad while we're doing this… there's got to be something more So, what was that time in India, as you're starting to connect with someone who has the answers and can reveal the secrets of the universe to you? That had to have been an extraordinary couple of years. What was that like?
David: It was remarkable. But it wasn't smooth. It wasn't like, oh, I found it, what I'm looking for and now everything is great. That's when the real work started, right? That's when it's like, OK, you wanna reach this level, you wanna be able to open your heart and help other people to open their hearts as well. You wanna awaken your soul, right? You wanna move past all these blocks that have developed inside of you. You know, Swami and the energy they're here, the Guru Parampara is here.
If you're willing, they will do everything to support you. But now that work is gonna start and that work is tough. That work is really challenging. That work of purification of whatever it is that's been covering our soul, whatever shadow we've allowed to cover ourselves. This is now coming up. So it was this combination of joy and profound gratitude that I found guidance… that I found what I'm looking for. Yeah. But now it's going through incredible emotions and real challenges and disillusionment and all kinds of experiences. And seeing all sides of myself that I had not known were there. So it was very intense on the one hand, in terms of that internal process, and it was also a deep teaching in learning how to really rely on God. Learning how to really develop a connection to Swami, and learning how to really open my heart and tune my energy to his energy. And it's not to Swami Kaleshwar right? It was not to this guru in a body that whatever he says I'm supposed to do, it's what he is connected to.
It's the doorway. He's a doorway to the energy. He's a doorway to God. He's a doorway to the Father, doorway to the Mother, a doorway to Jesus. That's what his soul is. And that's what I'm opening myself up to. That's what I'm attuning myself to. And so I had a lot of experiences while I was there that showed me the power of doing that and also just constant reaffirmations that yes, this is who he is.
Merging with the 5 Elements and Avadhut Energy
David: If I could give an example. When I was first there I was only supposed to stay for 4 or five weeks… I don't remember exactly how long it was, but I wanted to stay longer. And I knew that it was up to him to decide whether I should stay longer or not. And at that time you weren't supposed to be approaching him because he was starting to enter into a state of Avadhut energy. Avadhut energy is basically where a soul starts to completely merge with the five elements. And so this puts him in a state of extreme sensitivity and unpredictability. So it was not recommended that we just go up and talk to him. And this was different than the early days, right? In the late ‘90s and early 2000s, he was very accessible. The students that were with him, they felt like they were just with a brother and a friend and they would just joke around, come up and talk to him any time. They had his number and they could just call him. So this was not that time. It was changing and it was evolving. And so there was a moment when I decided that I wanted to stay. In my heart, I spoke to him and I said that I wanted to have a moment with him that I could talk to him about this. And then I just dropped it and then I completely let it go and I went about my daily Ashram routine. And several days later, I saw him on his swing next to this Hanuman statue where he spent a lot of time relaxing and he was on the phone. And as I was walking past him, I felt in my heart, his energy coming to me and I knew this is the door.
He's saying that now is the time. And so I just sat down and I waited and then he stopped talking on the phone. I looked to him, I just signaled, can I have one minute of your time? And he brought me close to him. And so I came up to him and the first thing that I noticed was this was the first time that I was having a one on one interaction with him directly and the ocean of infinity that I saw in his eyes. That light that seemed to go on forever. It just looked like a portal to the entire cosmos. And so I told him my request that I wanted to stay longer. And so he said, OK, there's no problem I could stay. And so I said, thank you. And I went on my way and as soon as I walked away from him, I collapsed and started sobbing. All this again, just more layers coming up to be released. And so that kind of relationship continued with him where I was not always one of the ones who spent the most time with him. Like there were other students who worked with him.
They took care of him and so they were around him all the time. But he said over and over again that, that proximity is a big blessing if you have it. And you get to observe a Saint up close, but that's not the real relationship. And so my goal became to develop that real relationship with him directly. And it continued in this way. I would feel that there were times where I wanted to reach out to him and I wanted to talk to him about some process that I was in or something that I was doing. And so it was always the same process… I would connect to him in my heart and I would tell him exactly what it was that I was asking for. And then I would let it go and I would just wait patiently and inevitably there would come a moment where his energy would come and I knew this is the moment, this is the time. And that climaxed in a process where he taught the Kaala chakra.
Sand Manifestation Process with Sri Kaleshwar
David: He took all the people that had been at that initial event that I had been at in Malibu and he gave them a particular process.
He had us in Joshua tree collect desert from the sand and he gave us a mantra and he gave us a process and he says, do this process until you see me again. And then we're gonna do something special with that sand. So I carried that sand with me every single time that I went to India, but he never brought it up again.
Jenna: How long were you carrying sand around?
David: I was carrying sand around for almost at least a year and a half.
Jenna: You had it with you.
David: Yeah, in this little pouch, I mean, like I didn't have it on me all the time, but I took it with me to India. I had it in my room. So one of those times where I reached out to him was because I've got this sand right. And so I wanna complete this process. So there comes this moment where he's walking not too far from me and I feel the door open. And so I walk up to him and he just lets me come right up to him and I talk to him about this sand and he says, “Let me look at it.” And he holds it for a moment.
He says, “Ok, next time you see me.” So I take it with me and the next time is Shivaratri 2008. And same thing… I have this desire in my heart and I reach out to him and I say, “OK, I've got this sand. I really want to complete this process now,” and then I let it go. There comes this moment where I'm on duty, He would have the men do all different kinds of tasks and jobs. And so I was doing one of those things. It was again, by his swing again, I feel this doorway of energy opening up and this union that's happening between our energies. And I know now is the moment to approach him. And so I come up to him and and I tell him, “OK, I've got this sand,” and he says, “All right, go sit at the duni.” And so I go sit at the duni and not too long afterwards, another woman comes and sits at the duni as well. And then he comes over and it turns out she also has this sand.
She was also in this process. And he tells us exactly what to do. He holds it in his hand for a minute, he gives it back and then he says, “I want you to do this mantra for this long. And then when you've done it. I want you to dig in the sand and see what you find.”
Jenna: So is this to manifest a physical object from?
David: I had no idea.
Jenna: You didn't know what was going to happen?
David: No idea what was going to happen. He had not told us anything about what was gonna happen at this point. I mean, I'd heard stories of things like that but I had no idea what was gonna happen. So I just, was going to do it, you know. And so our process. We did it for as long as he told us to. And then we started digging in our sand.
The pouch is about this big. It's not a ton of sand. If there's something there, we're gonna find it. We're digging, we're digging and nothing is there. And so we look down. And we look at each other, me and this woman. Snd we say “well, what should we do?” And she says, “let's just do it again.” So we do the, the process again. Exactly like he told us to again for the same period that he told us to. And then after it's over, we start digging and there's nothing. And so we just go back and forth and we just keep doing it and we keep doing it and we keep doing it and hours pass. And then at some point I start to talk to him directly and I start to say, “OK, there's something that you wanna give me here, but I wanna give you also something and I started to make a deal and I started to tell him - this is what I'm willing to do. This is how I'm willing to dedicate my life to you and to this mission. And I'm willing to do all of this. Please just let this happen. Let this be a success. Let me, let me experience what this is all about.”
And then shortly after that, there comes a point where he's up in his office playing music, which is something he would often do late into the night. Bollywood tunes really loudly. He tells us to meditate. He tells us to do these processes and he goes into his office and he just blasts Bollywood music. I,
Jenna: I hate to laugh. It's just so funny… like the paradox, right? It's just life, right? Like we learn to meditate to be able to peacefully navigate life. And it's like he was giving you guys that opportunity, I guess.
David: Yeah, exactly. To find the silence in the violence as he would say. And at some point I feel his presence again and I feel his energy as if he was putting his energy or his hands or his presence right on my back. And when I feel that that's the moment that I feel to dig and to not stop digging until this is done. And so that's what I do. And I go into some kind of just meditative trance. I have no idea how long I was digging in this tiny patch of sand. But nothing is happening until I look over at this other woman and suddenly she's got this sparkle in her eyes and she's holding her hand to her heart and she just looks at me and she just says, “Keep going,” and I keep going and I keep going and I feel his energy right at me and then suddenly at my fingertips hit this stone.
Jenna: Oh Wow. Wow.
David: Yeah. So it was quite a process.
Jenna: Wow. Congratulations. That's really cool.
Manifestation and How Miracles Flow
David: That was to me, proof… if we turn to the master and we open the heart to the master. And when we make a request of the master, his energy will respond. If our heart is open, he cannot help but respond. If we are patient and not forceful and we're willing to let it happen on his terms. He will respond. And then we have to put in the effort and we have to have the faith that it's gonna happen. And no matter how many times it seems like nothing is happening. As long as we don't give up, the miracle energy can flow. And that was a very concrete example of that in my life. Where that miracle energy really crystallized into a physical form. But that became a guiding principle for me in my life forever after that. That as long as I keep making that effort, as long as I keep turning to God, as long as I keep opening my heart, and as long as I do not give up, there will come a point where that miracle energy… the door will open, right? And then that miracle energy will come and create the transformation in whatever it is that's necessary. And I've seen this in my life with my personal blocks.
I've seen this in my personal relationships and it's the same mechanism, it's the same energy. And so, that was just one of the many profound experiences that I had with him that really just ended up applying to my entire life.
Jenna: Wow, thank you for sharing that. It also strikes me that you've developed this beautiful ability to practice non attachment. What you describe there about making that heartfelt connection, you know, putting in the request, but then letting it go…. like that's so crucial to that, that miracle process, that manifestation process and in whatever way we're creating or bringing new energy into the physical.
Relationship with God, Dattatreya and Learning from the Nature
Jenna: It's giving me this opportunity to reflect on how that master student relationship mimics the relationship with God. He's teaching you how to be in a relationship with God.
David: That's right. And how to be in a relationship with God through the nature and the nature being all of creation. The Mother in everything. That was one of his main goals was to bring his students to the Mother. And he said the goal was that eventually she becomes our guru. She becomes our teacher. And that's how he spoke about Jesus. He said he had many teachers, he had many masters, but really his master was the nature.
He was learning directly from the nature. Buddha also was learning directly from the nature as Dattatreya, right? Learning directly from the nature when you take Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva in one form and he's born in the body. His guru is the nature. In fact, he was the first guru, he was the first one who came and was able to start teaching the knowledge of how her creation works. And how did he learn it? He learned it from being in a body and learning from the nature.
Guru Parampara, Dattratreya, and Lineage of Gurus
Jenna: You mentioned earlier, the term Guru Parampara. Can you describe that briefly for the audience, for anyone who may not know you're talking about? And the Mother in this lineage of gurus. What is the Guru Parampara?
David: So, Parampara literally means lineage. Yeah. So it's literally the lineage of gurus and that lineage goes all the way back to the first guru to Dattatreya. Uh And so before that, you could imagine that in the creation, everyone is everything and everyone is completely covered by illusion. If you're in the creation, you're only experiencing illusion. You're only experiencing the maya, right?
You're not experiencing the reality of God in the creation and in the illusion. So, Dattratreya is the first one who's born. And again, he's all three of the male trinity in one form [Bramha, Vishnu and Shiva]. The generator, the operator and the destroyer, the three principles of God in one form. And they are born to a woman saint named Anasuya. So he learns directly from the Mother her secrets… the secrets of her womb, the secrets of her creation, and what is beyond the creation and how to be in the creation and connect to what is beyond the creation. And now he starts to teach others and that creates the seed of the lineage. So basically, you can think of it like a tree. So at the root is the Dattatreya. And then he starts to teach others and essentially what he's teaching them is the science of awakening, the science of awakening the soul, and the science of merging with the Mother, and the science of merging with the Father, with Shiva. And so now you start to have these awakened souls within the creation and these awakened souls awaken other souls who awaken other souls who awaken other souls. And the lineage from that moment until today continues unbroken in all of the great traditions, in all of the great spiritual traditions where there are awakened and enlightened masters who have that connection. They all trace back to the Dattatreya. It's not limited to the lineage that we’re part of with Sri Kaleshwar. There are many lineages. And they each have a different purpose. They're each here to bring a different piece of the puzzle to explain a different aspect of the creation. But when you enter into that lineage, when we find a person who is a part of that lineage, and we open our heart to that person, basically we bow to the guru principle.
We bow to the guru energy inside of them. It's not about submitting ourselves to the will of another human being and doing what another person says - and then that person is going to dictate and be the authority in our life - it's that person is a doorway to that awakened energy. And if we open our hearts to that and we recognize that, then that awakens the inner guru inside of us. And then we become part of that lineage and we're able to continue that process of helping other people to awaken as well.
Jenna: What a beautiful explanation. That might be one of the best explanations I've heard David. Thank you for that. And what a good reason to connect with this lineage or another that one might feel called to because we end up with this incredible team of support… it's like we have a non-physical team, you know, that big tree, that we can connect with and we're just sometimes so closed off to that realization. I'm so glad you were able to share that with those who might be in that skeptical but open place like we were when, when connecting with the guru for the first time.
Jesus, the Womb and Embodying Christ Consciousness
Jenna: You mentioned Jesus and Swami's connection with Jesus and you've done incredible work recently through the virtual Ashram. You lead a Satsang, a community discussion about Divine lives, Divine souls and you've focused this discussion primarily on the Holy Family and Jesus, and Swami's connection with Jesus. So I'd love for you to share a little bit about your personal connection with the Holy family, how that has developed over time through your connection with Swami.
David: Sure. I think it's maybe interesting to know that like you I was a former atheist. And there was no room in my heart for anything or my mind. Actually, there was no space in my mind for anything other than just a historical Jesus. A guy who existed 2000 years ago, ended up starting a religion that basically took over the world. That's the way that I saw it. When I started having the experiences with Swami and I started to trust him and realized that, “Ok, this is what I'm looking for.”
He was the one who started to teach about Jesus, and he started to teach about Jesus in a way that suddenly started to make complete sense to me.
Jenna: Which is a little unusual an Indian saint to be teaching about Jesus. So describe like why that is occurring.
David: So it seems unusual, but actually, there has existed uh for millennia, a hidden lineage of Saints whose sole purpose - I don't know about their sole purpose - but one of their main purposes was to help create an incarnation in this earth of pure love, a crystal clear soul where there was no Karma, where there was nothing covering the light of God that reflects off of everybody's soul because that light is in everybody's soul. There's no exception - that's contained within us all. But we have Karma.
We have been in the creation for lifetimes and we've been at the mercy of the illusion. And so we've covered that light. And that's what the process of awakening is and purification. It's coming back to uncovering that light, opening our hearts again, opening everything up again so that we're one with that light. But the purpose was to create this incarnation where that soul in a human body would be a total embodiment of the love of the Father and of the Holy spirit of the Divine Mother. And that's who we know is Jesus. That's the soul that we know is Jesus.
And a big part of that preparation wasn't just preparing the world to be able to carry that energy. It was preparing a womb who could carry that soul. And that was Mother Mary. And so Swami and Baba and a number of the other Rishis who are the an original seven souls that were created by the creator, by the generator… Who their lives, their soul, their everything is dedicated to the awakening and enlightenment of humanity. A big part of their process and especially the soul of Sri Kaleshwar was to help the soul of Mother Mary to prepare and purify her womb, to be able to carry what we in the West know as a Messiah, as a savior, as a soul, that would be a direct link to the Divine in a way that no soul had ever been before. And so that process led to the birth of Jesus Christ.
And that's who Jesus is. And so Jesus is part of this great mission to bring the knowledge and to bring the understanding of how to develop this relationship to God, how to develop this relationship to the Mother, and how to open our heart to God in humanity and to God in each other. And you cannot separate Swami Kaleshwar from that. In fact, Swami in 2011 revealed that he was actually an incarnation of the Maha Avatar Babaji. And for anybody who has read “Autobiography of a Yogi,” Babaji is this incredible Maha Atma who he's been in a form for over 18,000 years. He's still in a form today. And so a piece of his soul, a part of his soul has incarnated as Swami Kaleshwar. And his whole purpose is to bring about the Christ consciousness, the awakening of Christ consciousness in humanity. And that the first step to that being possible was there being a soul born who was an embodiment of the Christ consciousness. And that's Jesus. And Swami has actually said, when somebody asked him how do we access Jesus's consciousness? And he gave a mantra a pin code to his own consciousness and said, that's the doorway, that's the gateway.
I wish I could remember exactly what his words were. But that's essentially it. It's if you connect to the consciousness of Swami Kaleshwar, you are connecting to the consciousness of Jesus Christ. And he has said many times that every Saint, any Saint in the world who is operating in this way, it is actually Jesus's energy that is coming through them. It doesn't matter if it's Buddha or if it's Baba or if it's Swami Kaleshwar - it's actually Jesus' energy that is coming through. And so the Jesus energy, the Christ consciousness is essentially that. In the Bible, it says “I am the way the truth, the light. Nobody can come to the Father except through me.” And this doesn't mean that, you know, everybody has to follow the church of Christianity and to follow the form of Jesus… it's his consciousness.
What he brought into human form that exists in everything is the only way to access the energy of the Father. And this is why Swami brought us first to the Mother because first we have to connect to her first. We have to connect to her womb. The Christ consciousness can only enter into the womb of the mother. Just like the seed of Christ, the seed of Jesus could only be born into a womb, a human womb that carried and was connected to the universal womb. And so once he connects us directly to the Mother, now we are eligible. To then bring in this Christ's consciousness. And then to essentially embody the love of the Father that is beyond the creation, in the creation, beyond time and essentially live and create heaven on earth.
Jesus and the Sacred Geometry of Divine Harmony
Jenna: I love that David. Thank you for sharing all of that. It reminds me of an intention I set yesterday. Yesterday was a Ganesh festival and we were celebrating the destroyer of obstacles. And I set an intention for us all to experience the Kingdom of Heaven in this lifetime… for the whole Sai family to embody that state of perfected divine order.
You know, I think of the energy field of a being like Jesus representing like the perfect geometrical structure of the universe. I think in geometry terms a lot because we're into sacred geometry at Star Family wisdom. And that's helped me kind of understand the harmony, the harmonics that are present in the creation. And it's powerful to think of one being (soul), being able to be that while also in the creation, right? Like just to even wrap our heads around that. Yeah. So we got a little off track with your personal connection and how that's how that's developed.
We talked about Swami and that really important eternal connection. I almost said historical, but that's not right - eternal connection - that exists between him and Jesus. So how is your relationship with Jesus and the Holy Family developed over time?
The Divine Court, Jesus’s Birth, and Mother Mary Apparitions
David: Yeah. So once Swami started teaching about it, that's when my heart started to open to Jesus. Swami always talked about him about as the big, big boss. You know, he always talked about Baba as being the big boss. And I mean, everything was about Baba, you know, Baba is basically - there's this Divine court of Divine souls that exists in the cosmos, that exists in the cosmic. And it's the greatest of souls, all the souls who are here to work towards the evolution of all sentient beings throughout the universe. They worked together in the Divine court. And Jesus was - you're asking about my personal connection - I can never help but divert and talk about this kind of thing. Um
Jenna: It's good context. Yeah.
David: Yeah. Because the context is after he was born and after he left his body, Jesus was the head of this Divine court for 2000 years. And then in the year 2000 Baba took over. And so Baba is another incredible soul, an incarnation of Dattatreya. Another embodiment of this pure energy and all these souls and all these Saints, they're able to become who they are now because of Jesus. Because Jesus was born, now they're able to reach a level that they were never able to. They're now able to operate at a level of mastery that, that is possible because of Jesus's birth, right? And so Swami all the time talks about Baba. Baba's will - go to Baba, talk to Baba, make a deal with Baba. Everything is about Baba, right? When you're living at the Ashram and when you're, when you're reading his teachings, everything is about Baba. He calls Baba the big boss, but he calls Jesus the big big boss. But Jesus is the kind of guru of Gurus, the Raja, the King of Kings. He is what is making everything else possible.
And so the way that I developed my relationship to him was actually … there is a student, Philip Lipetz. He was an early student of Swami's. And in the late ‘90s, he was given a process. He and a number of other students were told that this process would lead to the visitation of a Divine soul. So he's living in Southern California at that time completing his process. And suddenly, this woman in white starts to appear to him and this woman in white starts to tell him all of this biblical history. And this story of this hidden lineage of Saints and, and this whole other side, like all this background story to what we know of as the Old Testament, but suddenly, with a lot more perspective and how this whole history is leading to the birth of Jesus Christ. And once she tells him that, then she reveals herself that she's mother Mary and she starts appearing to him regularly and she starts asking him that whenever she appears, he should have his laptop ready and he should transcribe her words. And so that's what he does. And so this relationship develops where she appears, he transcribes their conversations. Then this goes on for I forget exactly how long, then she stops appearing.
She starts reappearing again 13 years later, uh comes back again, six years later. So there's this whole teaching coming from her. And it was when I read these teachings, that's when I started to understand who Jesus was. That's when I started to understand what it was that Swami had been telling us about -who this incredible soul was. And that's when I started to open my heart deeply to him. And to Mother Mary also, and basically started to just focus on opening my heart to her energy, opening my heart to her womb, seeing her as my Mother. And developing that, that connection to her. And eventually, that's when all of this understanding started to develop about Jesus and about the depth of who he was and how to connect to his energy directly. And something that Swami said to a group of students who he gave Jesus Darshan to. So he was able to pull Jesus into form and each person was able to see him with their two eyes open [darshan]. And he told that group that if you go to Jesus and, you connect to Jesus, you don't need to do any mantras, you don't need to do any practices, you don't need to do any processes because everything is contained in him. And so I wanted to find out what that meant. And so I dove just fully into learning, and opening my soul to him. Hm.
Jenna: Wow. I could feel that in you the first time. Well, we hadn't even met yet. I was just watching your videos and I was just like, feeling that so deeply and I remember at the time thinking “I want to talk to him at some point.” I'm just in awe of how you held that i, your Satsang as you were talking. It's clear that has developed really beautifully for you. You mentioned Philip Lipetz and his work - you introduced me to that just this week and I've not read all of it yet.
We can link to it in the show notes so people can find what you're talking about here. Philip documented all of these conversations and these moments of channeling Mother Mary.
David: Well, not channeling, not channeling because it's really important. She was in the room with him.
Jenna: Oh, yes. Yes. Good distinction. Yes. Thank you.
David: Yeah, you're physically there. Yeah, that's different. Having a conversation. Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you, but I feel like that's, it's a really important distinction. Because he's not connected to something that's not there. And this is actually a core part of Swami's teaching, that it is possible to develop a direct relationship with God or with a Divine soul - that they're actually able to appear to us. And he gave many examples in the lives of uh Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, Vivekananda, his own life, the life of Jesus… where that's the kind of relationship that they developed with the Divine… that they're able to talk to an aspect of God, the way that you and I are talking right now.
Jenna: And this was a person who didn't have like a prior history in Christianity and had been deep in the Hindu path and in Swami's path for many years and, and then this happens. I've just started reading some of these texts and it's so clear to me like - wow, that he was prepared for this through Swami.
David: Yeah, exactly.
Jenna: And, you know, we're talking about this in a way that - it was just this conversation - but, it warrants just pausing and acknowledging how Divine and Supernatural these experiences are that can happen. We’re just going about our daily lives you know, and, and, and caught up in the mundane aspects of life… and it's possible for any soul to have these sorts of experiences and to be in this direct communion and communication with an aspect of God, with a divine soul who has walked the Earth. And that's just incredible.
You know, we hear about these kind of spontaneous apparitions that have happened throughout history. And there's all this mysticism that surrounds that and maybe more questions than answers and, what we find in the divine lineage is the protocol, the tools, the practices, the processes that prepare our soul to move into that level of experience. So it's no longer an open ended question of how these things occur.
David: That's exactly right.
David’s Mother Divine Darshan Experience
Jenna: Have you had any sort of experience like that? Connecting with a Divine soul?
David: Yes. Yeah, I have. In 2007 actually in the first Soul University Swami taught a mantra, the Maheshwari Mantra. I believe you can actually learn this in the Virtual Ashram.
There's courses about it. I'm pretty sure there is or if not that the Divine lineage, the Divine Mother Center offers initiation into this mantra periodically or any teacher who has received this mantra and gone through the process can initiate another into this mantra.
And so Swami gave that mantra and then he had Monica (Mataji) and Nithyananda go to the US and initiate two large groups into this mantra. And we only had to do this mantra for 15 to 30 minutes a day. And we did this mantra and then I think it was 148 of us came to the Ashram in Shivaratri of 2008 having done this mantra, 15 to 30 minutes every single day.
And he pulled us all into the Mandi. And he told us that we were going to have Mother Divine Darshan, which meant she was going to be appearing in front of us. And so what he did was he went into a back room and then we got into single file and then one by one, we would enter the room. Swami would be there. He would hold us. You couldn't see what was happening inside of the room, but you could see people coming out and you could see that the person coming out was not the same person who came in. And he told us a very specific intention. A Sankalpam (intention) to have when we went in there and when we saw her.
And so I was just running that Sankalpam like a mantra so that it would just be on autopilot. So that as soon as I saw her, I would not forget. But then when I entered into the room he grabs my shoulders, he turns me and there she is. And what was so striking to me was how, I don't know what the word is, but how REAL she looked. In other words, I had been expecting like an otherworldly being with an otherworldly glow. And later on, I realized that her face was completely illuminated, but the room was dark. So in other words, she looked completely as if there was a source of light on her, but the room was entirely dark. But that part I didn't catch at the time... but what I caught in that moment was that she looked as if she was… I could see the detail on her skin. I could see the folds in her Sari.
I was not expecting that I was expecting something more ethereal. And that she was so real looking that a part of my mind was really like, is this really the Divine Mother? Did Swami? Like my mind really thought this - not in that instant but in the moment afterwards – “Did he just pull some village woman off from the side?”
Jenna: Isn't the human mind so wild? (laughing)
David: It went straight to doubt. But it didn't silence those doubts, because my mind would continue to go in this way for a really long time. But what completely overpowered that and completely told me that, No, this was exactly who he said it was, was her eyes. Because her eyes were not human. And her eyes had… a light is not the right way to say it… Her eyes had this expression and this intensity that I had never seen on anybody before. And when I looked into those eyes and then I remembered what I was supposed to say and I said it. Then as I said it, as soon as I said it inwardly silently, as soon as I finished saying it, she was looking at me with these eyes and then she nodded her head to say “I heard what you said, I'm granting you your wish.”
And then there were all kinds of other things. She had like a Kali tongue.
Jenna: I almost wanted to ask, did you see Kali? Did you see a different version?
David: It apparently was a form of Kali… a very calm form of Kali, but she had the tongue. And her skin was not skin colored... it had an orange cast to it… which sometimes you see images of the Mother and they have different colors… like she was holding a weapon.
But it was the eyes that told me that this was the Mother. And when I left that experience and when we were all walking back to our rooms to digest this, there was another woman in the group and as I'm walking away, she turns around and she looks at me and it's the same eyes are looking at me through her.
Jenna: Oh Wow,
David: Exact eyes, the same power, the same energy, and she was in this other woman looking at me. And I've since seen those eyes from time to time when I'm out in the world. And then I know that that's her that she's looking at me. So yeah, I had that experience.
Jenna: How has your life changed since that? That's the ultimate experience to see God.
Going Beyond the 5 Elements and Seeing Through Illusion
David: Swami says that that is the start of your real life… when we see the Mother, when we connect to the Mother. That's the beginning of our real life. That's the beginning of our real spirituality. And the way he describes it is that when we're standing in front of her, a part of us goes beyond the creation.
She's in the five elements. She's in a physical form, but she's beyond the five elements, right? And so our soul has that same experience. We're in front of her in the five elements, but a part of our soul merges with what is beyond the five elements… we connect to the infinity and then that infinity comes inside of us. And then it becomes a process of digesting that and it becomes a process of developing that relationship and that understanding. So in terms of what u that did to my life… it made life really hard for a really long time.
Jenna: Thank you for being honest again.
David: Yeah. No, it's not a process of once we have these incredible beautiful experiences, then suddenly we're living in bliss. It's not like that. At least it hasn't been that way in my experience. And that's not what Swami trained us for. Because essentially what he was training us for is you have to learn how to live in the illusion. We have to learn how to taste the illusion. And we have to learn how to experience what he called the A to Z. We have to learn to taste the entire range of human experience. First of all, from a point of view where we are not conscious and when we're in the bliss, it's great and we don't want to leave it. And then when we go to the Z and it's horrific and painful and terrible and terrifying, we're not remembering God, we're just experiencing that. Right. So we have the entire experience and then eventually our soul gets stronger, our soul comes up. And then we are able to feel the connection to what is beyond the illusion, to what is beyond time to what is untouched by what is happening in the illusion. And now we can start to experience the A to Z or at least like the A to J maybe… we grow to the Z eventually. But we start to be able to have these experiences connected to that part of us that is beyond the creation, that is beyond time. And that is unchanging, untouched by everything. And then we learn how to love everything that's happening. And then we learn how to recognize that light.
That is the Mother, this is how he described it. He said in every single human being, there is a light, there is a fire and that is her. And so our job becomes then to recognize that and to be able to see through the illusion, what we see with our two eyes. What we think with our mind and how we interpret things in all of our judgments… to see through all those things and then to see that light and relate to that light inside of everything and everybody, and that's when the energy can flow
Jenna: And that's the mission.
David: That’s the mission. Exactly. Yeah.
Jenna: And we're in a challenging time here on earth, to accomplish that. We're given lots of heavy negative illusions to see through and to change and to evolve. And I want to just share this really quickly since you brought up that concept of seeing through the illusion. One affirmation… an English affirmation I've adopted this year that's been helping me with that concept, in any moment when some illusion is present is:
“ I see through the illusion with love, I meet the illusion with love, and I change the illusion with love.”
And that's something I'm like leaning into more and more to just remind myself that the whole process, is through…, you know we don't change the illusion in the other way.
David: No, no, no, we just stay stuck in the illusion any other way.
Jenna: Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for sharing about your experience with the Divine Mother. That's incredibly powerful and personal and important. And I think it's really cool for others to hear what's possible and to hear about that moment.
David: It was transformational and by the way, that actually happened within two days of this experience [sand manifestation experience].
Jenna: Ah that makes sense that the High Shakti experience maybe, like, helped prepare for that.
David: Yeah, it was just an incredible time where he was just giving, giving, giving so much. So, yeah, it was really, really cool.
Integrating Divine Experiences, Worldly Challenges, and Soul-Centered Living (Dharma)
Jenna: Wow. You might hear my cat in the background… anytime the energy gets high or we're getting into some sort of Divine process or conversation, he just starts going crazy.
David: That's interesting.
Jenna: Yeah, I'm noticing the pattern, the energetic pattern with him. David, since your time in the Ashram, you're now back in the States, you're living life, you have a family, you have kids, you've integrated, these high level Divine experiences. This wisdom you've connected with, you've integrated that into your life in beautiful ways. What are you doing now in life? And how are you being of service in the world?
David: So I'm in the process of integration. Yeah. So I cannot say that I have completely integrated that. I have no idea how long this process will take, but I've done what I can to integrate as much as I possibly can. And that process that I went through… the challenges that I went through over the last, since Swami took Samadhi… Since we moved back to living first in Vienna, Austria where my wife is from, who I also met at the Ashram. I didn't get a chance to talk about that. But we were both there in 2010.
Yeah, we met and it was clear to us that we were - each was the one, the other one was willing to commit to for the rest of their lives. We had a very deep, profound love that we discovered together. We got married there and then we had almost immediately afterwards a child, we had a, a divine daughter and so we came back to live in the West. We were living in Austria. We were living in the US and, and that's when the real challenges started. The challenge of learning how to be a human being in a relationship with another, the challenge of learning how to transform the wounds and the traumas that each one of us were carrying from our own childhood and our own past lives that we're now manifesting and reflecting in the relationship. And in the dynamic with our daughter. This process of learning how to open up to that while also learning how to earn a livelihood. And provide and no escape. Like living completely in the world while struggling to embody and live by these principles and these teachings that we've learned and to connect to that energy and feeling. Sometimes this pull between what seems like two worlds.
Until there came a time where basically through learning how to connect to Jesus, learning how to connect to the Mother. And then realizing that actually, there was no dichotomy, there were not two worlds, there was only God in everything in every situation and in every person and learning how to live from a soul centered place instead of a mind centered place. Because that was the struggle. Much of what we had learned, we were trying to apply from our mind. We were attached to what we thought spirituality was about. We were attached to concepts of what Swami had taught us. And it was only when we started to let go of these concepts and started to open up directly to the energy of the mother that existed in life itself, that we allowed that energy to start to illuminate the shadows that we were carrying. And that our own soul was able to illuminate all of these blocks that we were carrying.
Once our soul started to become more of the center, that's when I would say I could feel like I was finally integrating and it took a long time, it took years. And then once that happened, then there came a moment where it became very clear to me, this is what I want my life to be about. I want to help other people to learn how to live a soul centered life. Because this is the key. This is what the world needs.
We have to be living from the soul. We have to be living from a heart and the disease of the world at the moment is that we're living from the mind. We've lost the connection to that Divine spark inside of us and we've lost the ability to see that Divine spark or we've forgotten how to see that in others. And when we do that, that's when we live in alignment with the soul and with what we could call the will of God. The will of the Father, “our Father who art in heaven, you know that thy will be done.” And so what I'm doing now is I'm working on helping and coaching people to live in this way. And the kind of niche that I'm just focusing on professionally.
Anybody who comes to me if they are interested, I will do everything that I can to help them. I'm working with entrepreneurs, impact driven entrepreneurs, people who feel like they have a mission here on earth. People who feel like they have some inkling of a purpose of how they want to transform the world, they want to make the world a better place. They want to help uplift others, they want to be of service in their own unique ways, but they are struggling. They don't know how. They're getting some success, their business is flowing in certain ways. But they're stuck because of that lack of flowing because everything is coming from their own will.
They're trying to make things happen. They're trying this strategy, they're trying that strategy. They're spreading themselves in a million different directions. And so they're feeling anxious and overwhelmed and stressed and burning out. And so right now I work with people like that to help them learn how to let go of all of that, how to focus entirely on what their vision is of what they want to create. What is their aim? That's something that Swami talked a lot about… how we have to have an aim in life and to help them understand what is your aim? Why did you create this business? If you could imagine in the future, the highest impact that this would possibly have in the world and in the lives of your clients and in the lives of anybody that this touches and in the life in your life and in your family, in the highest state that you could reach. What is that? What does that look like? How does that feel and then learning that the secret to getting there is to rely entirely on God. That the secret to getting there is to rely entirely on God in our relationships… that God exists in those who are around us, that we have to open our hearts and we have to open our souls to the hearts and souls of others. And then God is present in our life. And then that energy and the Divine Mother's energy can flow into our life. And when we have an openhearted goal and we're of service, then that energy just gets magnetized into us and creates these visions that we have. And so that's the work that I'm doing at the moment.
Jenna: I love that this is your approach right now because I think this is so critical for so many businesses on the planet. You know, not just entrepreneurs who want to be successful themselves, but businesses who are finding themselves at a crossroads between service to self. Service to the business and profits and the people in charge or service to the greater whole. And you're talking about this open hearted connectedness approach to leadership, to life, to business where everyone wins because we're seeing everyone is the same as God - is a unique part of the whole. And I think you're in a really unique position right now with that because I think so many entrepreneurs are realizing the old paradigm is not going to survive. Like that's not how we're going to do business going forward and that's not how we're going to lead going forward. And folks need tools, they need help, making that transition because you shared previously, there are a lot of challenges that come with making that transition and getting into that heart centered place of leadership.
David: I also feel that there's an epidemic of dissatisfaction and lack of fulfillment. That when people are doing work that they feel is not aligned with what they're here to do. And how much that burns them out and how much dissatisfaction that creates.
Jenna: Yeah, and not knowing, how am I supposed to find something different? What does that even look like?
David: Right. And it has such a compounding effect when people are working jobs that make them feel miserable. It is closing their hearts even more to the divine energy and then when they come home, they have less to give to their families, to their spouses and to their Children. And so it really has these ripple effects. And it's so important that we discover how to live from the heart and how to live an aligned life, a soul centered life. Because when we do that, the opposite happens. We actually are living our Dharma. We're living our, our purpose, we're living what we're here to do. And when that happens, when we are aligned with our Dharma, then the divine energy flows. Then we actually feel energized by the work that we do, we feel inspired, which literally means to be full of spirit. And then we do our duty and we leave feeling more full. Then when we started and we come home and our cup is overflowing and we feel so much love and gratitude for the other souls that are in our life that are actually enabling us. The love that's flowing through them is the fuel that creates the power that flows through their soul.
When we open our hearts to them, when we open our souls to them, then that's when God's energy is flowing to us. And when we live in that way, that's what God intended. That's what was intended for humanity was to live in this way where we are constantly expanding love. There's constantly love radiating, we're constantly growing love through our actions and through our relationships and we are constantly helping other people to do the same.
Jenna: Hm. I love that so much. And I think such a good PSA for folks who are watching this: if you're kind of miserable, if you're feeling disenfranchised, frustrated, depleted at the end of your days, that's a sign, that's a sign that it's time to explore a change. And for business leaders: it's one or the other, you're either in service to love with your business and growing that in the world or your business is destructive. Because it's one or the other, right? It's love or destruction. And so we've got that choice right now on the planet.
Money as Energy and Becoming a Vessel for God’s Blessings
David: Yeah, that's absolutely right. And money is just a form of energy. And when we chase money, when we chase that as a goal, we are chasing an illusion, right? The energy is taking the form of money and we are chasing the illusory form of money rather than becoming a vessel for the source of that energy. And when we become a source, excuse me, when we become a vessel, an instrument for that source and that energy flows through us, then the level of energy that's flowing through us is going to reflect back to us in the level of prosperity that we experience in this life. And we don't need to live the life of a billionaire. It's not necessary. Nobody needs to be living at that level, right? We need to be living at a level where we feel God is constantly taking care of our wants and our needs and our soul desires and you know, material things that we need. You need a car to get to work, you need this, you need that you need a house, right?
You have the desire that you want to send your child to college so that they can get a good education - like these are all noble desires. And for God to provide that level of energy is not a big deal. We're talking about the creator of the entire universe. Heaven and Earth and all the Galaxies - the level of energy it takes to create that - to get an additional layer of material blessings is nothing. But in order to get them, we have to let them go, you know what I mean?
We give the desire to God. I'm asking for this now, I'm letting it go. Now, I'm focused on channeling your energy for the benefit of others, on helping others. You provide all this stuff. You take care of all these needs. You know, I'm having these headaches, I'm having these difficulties you take care of that. I'm going to take care of others. And when we do that, then this is when we live in basically like the Garden of Eden. Everything is provided for us… everything that we need, we're taken care of. We're Children of God. That's the divine right that we have. But we have to act like that. We have to be that in order to live there.
Jenna: And there are just so many layers of programming on top of that, that we have to peel back and reprogram rewire ourselves for that state of being. I think that that idea of living in the Garden of Eden and having all of our needs provided for… first we intellectualize that and we can think about that state of being but then actually evolving into that is the hard work. Sometimes that's the aspect of transformation that is required to be able to experience that.
There's so much to talk about and unpack and share and we should probably wrap up soon. So I want to ask you for some closing words of advice or wisdom for the audience. For those who are going through that process - I think everyone's going through that process - for anyone who's reprogramming themselves and peeling back those layers of illusion and working on finding their true self and going through the challenges of that, what sort of advice would you have for someone who's in that process right now?
David: If we turn to God and we tell God exactly what it is that we want. First of all, we have to get clear on what it is that we want. What is it that we want to reach in this life? What is the state that we want to reach? What is the state of open heartedness? What is the state of soul awakening that we want to reach? Right? What is the service that we want to provide to the world? I mean, in terms of helping others. Not like a business service. What is the way that we want to help uplift others? What is the state that we want to help others reach? The first step is get clear on that and when we know what that is and when we're clear, this is what I want… then we give it to God with our open heart.
This is what I want in my life. This is what I want my life to be about. This is what I want to dedicate myself to. This is how I want to connect to you. What is the relationship that we want to be having with God? Being really clear on that. How connected and centered do we want to be and once we're clear on that, then give it to God and don't stop digging, don't stop digging.
Jenna: I love it.
David: Yeah, just keep going. Because the moment we tell God this is what I want to reach.
This is who I want to become. Then the mother is going to bless our life with every single circumstance that we need to reach that state and most of those circumstances are going to come in the form of challenges. And if we meet those challenges and we continue and we move forward and we constantly keep reconnecting with God and saying God, this is really hard. I'm struggling with this. I'm not able to meet this challenge. I need your help. I'm going to keep making the effort. I'm not going to give up. I'm going to keep going and we keep going and we keep going and we keep going.
Swami said, eventually, God has to give it and God will bless that whatever it is that we're asking for heartfully. God will eventually give it. So as long as we just don't give up and we keep making the effort and we keep taking the opportunities that are being presented to us in our life and listen to that guidance and listen to our intuition and our soul that's guiding us towards the things that we need to do. And we keep meeting those challenges. You're guaranteed to reach your goal as long as you don't give up.
Jenna: Mm I love that. That's such an incredible piece of advice. So everyone, think of life like David's pouch of sand, keep digging, keep digging. Don't stop. David, thank you so much for this conversation, for sharing yourself so openly and vulnerably and for all that you are bringing to people in the world. And for giving people who are watching this the chance to connect with our masters, our gurus.
I'm looking at their photos right now. Thank you. Thank you for, for being that connection point for others.
David: Yeah. Thank you so much for opening the door for this conversation. I love talking about this stuff.
I love talking about God. I love talking about this and I really appreciate the space that you create to have a really beautiful conversation.
Jenna: Thank you. Thank you. It's been beautiful. I hope we have another one at some point soon.
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