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Speaker 1: This is the Ultimate Advisor podcast, the podcast for financial advisors who want to create a thriving, successful, and scalable practice. Each week we'll uncover the ways that you can improve your referrals, your team, your marketing, and your business operations, helping you to level up your advising practice, bring in more assets and create the advising practice that you've dreamed of.

 You'll be joined by your hosts, Bryan Sweet, who has more than half a billion dollars in assets under management, Brittany Anderson, the driving force for advisors looking to hire, improve their operations and company culture, and Draye Redfern, who can help you systematize and automate your practice's marketing to effortlessly attract new clients.

 So what do you say? Let's jump into another amazing episode of the Ultimate Adviser podcast.

Bryan Sweet: Welcome to the Ultimate Advisor podcast. I'm Bryan Sweet, your host. Today's topic is of real interest to me on niche marketing. With me today is Jim Dew with Jim Dew Wealth Management. Jim is one guy who knows who he wants to serve and is laser focused on that niche.

 So Jim, share a little bit about your story and how you got started and where your practice is now.

Jim Dew : Certainly. Thank you for having me on Bryan. I've always respected you and your work and it's nice to spend a few minutes together today.

Bryan Sweet: Thank you.

Jim Dew : I started in the business, I was a high school math and physics teacher right out of college and did that for five years and decided to change careers and found this career of financial advisory work. I started with a big firm out of New York in their Phoenix office and it was the kind of thing where you probably can relate, it was me and 30 other guys. It was all guys in those days in cubicles and my runway was $500 a month for three months. So they said, "You know, you've got to get out there and sell something."

 I was fortunate that the group I worked with in Phoenix was really focused on financial planning even though they sold products, so I got a good base on the financial planning side. But after a few years of doing that, I found more and more I was butting heads with the managers and the people who supervised me because I felt like they kept pushing products down the retail channel that were best for the company and not necessarily best for the clients.

 It all boiled up in 1999 when I had this huge argument with my manager about a product. We disagreed on how the product worked so we decided to call a compliance attorney in New York with our firm. The compliance attorney listened to both sides and then he said, "Jim's right. That's how the product works". And I was gloating. I had a big smile on my face that I had kind of won this argument. As the manager left my office, he stopped and he pointed at me and he said, "Jim, let me ask you a question." I said, "Yeah, what's that?" And he said, "You have this nice office, you have staff, you have computers, you have a good parking spot, who pays for all of that?" And I said, "The company does." And he said, "Then who do you need to take care of?" And he stormed out of the office.

 I went home that night and you know, my wife Mimi, I vented to her. And when I finished she said, "You've got to start your own company." I said, "What? What are you talking about?" She said, "You're never going to be aligned with these people who are pushing products and who have the mother company in mind."

 I started trying to figure out what that was, and I learned about this independent RIA thing, and so I formed my own independent RIA in 1999. This is our 20th anniversary of being in business. And then of course the stock market crash of 2000, 2001 and 2002 hit so it was a baptism by fire. But I was so happy that I was aligned with my clients, even if I was afraid and teetering on financially going far backwards from where I was before.

 So that's a little bit about how I started. And then along the lines I started thinking about who I really wanted to work with and really decided entrepreneurs and specifically entrepreneurs who are founders, owners, who have a growth mindset, who love to share ideas and grow and inspire others and change the world, and so I started focusing on working with those folks.

 Today my practice we're kind of a mix because we do assets under management, but we also do a lot of fixed fee business. So entrepreneurs hire us without having to move assets to us in cases where all their money's in their business, but they're making a lot of money or if they are big into real estate and they don't like to own portfolios where we would get paid on the assets.

 And so we've grown to be, I think, successful in the niche and I feel like we're on a really fast growth pace, and most importantly I feel like we're serving our clients well and having a really good time doing it.

Bryan Sweet: Yeah, I would say that's a great start. I love your tagline, "You're the advisor to the entrepreneur," and I would tell you that's so true. It's fun listening to you talk about how you work with entrepreneurs and seeing you in action.

 Maybe a quick question would be how did you get some extra clarity around identifying and staying true to entrepreneurs kind of be in your niche? Anything drive you to that specifically?

Jim Dew : Well, I had coaches over the years and one thing that from coaches and at conferences I've attended, and you've probably heard this, Brian, is you need to niche, you need to niche. Over and over I've heard that story and it sounds good, but when you really think about it, it's pretty scary to only offer your services to a small group of people. What I decided though, I finally reached a point where one of my coaches said, "You should sit down and think about who you like to work with most and who is profitable to your business." Because you may love working with 22 year old college graduates, but it's hard to make a living working with 22 year old college graduates.

 So it had to be those two components. And when I thought about who I enjoyed working with most and who I looked at was most profitable to the business, a group of entrepreneurs kept popping up, so I decided that was the route I should take.

 In addition, I should say that you want to be passionate about who you're working with. My father was a pediatrician and when I tried to work with doctors, I really hated working with doctors. So I decided having expertise in that area of working with doctors and also dealing with doctors all the time was not something that seemed like I would enjoy it. So you want to make sure that you enjoy it and that you're going to be profitable at doing it.

 That's really what I started, was focusing on entrepreneurs. But then I realized from another coach who said, "You know Jim, you say you specialize in entrepreneurs, but you really haven't put the flag in the ground so to speak." I thought about that and I thought, "You know what, my coach is right. That I really need to, if I'm going to be a niche person, I really need to be clear about it." Because you don't go to someone who's a call it a pediatric oncologist and say, "Hey, by the way, I have a broken arm. Could you see me today?" They'd laugh at you and say, "I'm a pediatric oncologist. I am not going to fix a broken bone. I had a day in medical school doing that, but trust me; you don't want me to do that."

 I started really focusing on it and to do that I think to put the flag in the ground, I changed all my marketing materials. I think that's the first step when you niche, we could talk more about that, you really need to make it clear to the public who you serve.

 In fact, I just talked to an advisor the other day who said he specialized in working with divorced women. I went on his website, it says he works with retirees, business owners and people in transition, and then under the people in transition divorced women is one of the categories. To me that's not really niching; that is kind of casually thinking about niching and casually dipping your toe in that market. So I changed all my marketing materials, which was a big thing to put out there that I'm the advisor to the entrepreneur.

 And then the second thing that has to happen, and this is when you're really starting to niche, is you have to turn down business. And I don't mean business that you're moderately averaged okay client, but a really good client. Shortly after I really put the flag in the ground, I had a referral that was two ophthalmologists and it was husband, wife. They had about $5 million of investible assets they were looking for a home for, and they were making about $800,000 a year of income. So for most advisors, that's a pretty good client.

 I looked at that and I remember just thinking, "Oh, maybe I should just make an exception." And I remember thinking, "Hey look, I've got to stand for something. I've got to stick with my guns." And I told them, "You know, I work with entrepreneurs. I'm sorry about that. I can refer you to somebody else." And I have to say they were shocked. Like just the response was they couldn't believe that someone would actually turn them down despite all my materials say that. But I think a lot of people don't really believe you until you firmly say this is the direction I'm going. But then there are many advantages to that once you do that. 

 I'll pause there, but that's like a couple of thoughts I have about niching and how I got to niche with the entrepreneurs.

Bryan Sweet: Kudos to Jim. What I've found is that most advisors are just like you said, they have multiple areas that they work in but they think they have a niche. One of the biggest problems is that advisors do not take enough time to go deep in a subject matter that they really like. So compliments to you for taking that step, and it takes a lot of guts and determination to turn down big piece of business like that.

 One of the things I've always also admired about you, Jim, is that not only are you really highly educated and have all the degrees and designations, but you're also a student of the game. You and I got to meet each other through Genius Network.

 Maybe if you could discuss some of the things that you do to promote your niche, your training that you're taking. Maybe also talk a little bit about the benefits of joining some outside mastermind groups. We've talked about that on several podcasts, but I think the audience would find it very interesting to get your perspective.

Jim Dew : Absolutely. As far as how I promote what we do in my niche, I do a lot of speaking. I wrote a book. Obviously referrals is a great way for all of us to get business, every advisor knows that. But also trying to be a thought leader and an expert in your niche. That's one other reason why niching is so powerful because if you go and speak just to general groups of people, it's hard for them to really feel that you have something different to offer. But if you're speaking to, for example my example earlier, if your niche was pediatric oncologist and you went and spoke at a pediatric oncologist event of some kind and knew things about them and their business and their life and their medical practice that no other advisor they've ever talked to knew, you would pick up clients very fast. So I think knowing your niche and also deciding how to present to them and when and where.

 I used to do a lot of continuing education classes for CPAs and attorneys and then what I realized was I enjoyed more and I felt like I could add more value by speaking directly to my niche market. That's one reason why it's helpful to niche, because that's how you can promote yourself.

 As far as mastermind groups and other ways to get education, I reached a point in my career where I had gone to all the conferences and the industry specific stuff and I knew a lot of financial advisors and that was extremely helpful. I find that in general the financial planning community is very willing to help each other and to support each other, but with few exceptions. However, I also think you need to get a clear perspective from a different ... someone who's outside your industry.

 So I started thinking, "What else could I learn from people outside my industry who are building businesses?" One reason I was attracted entrepreneurs is I discovered after being a school teacher that I was actually an entrepreneur. I was a terrible employee when I worked for a broker dealer, and the people who I worked under could tell you how agonizing it was to deal with me. And when I started my company in 99 I realized I'm an entrepreneur. I'm willing to jump out there and take a lot of risks. I wanted to be around other people like me. I felt that a lot of the financial advisors, even though really good people I met at the conferences, many of them worked for brokerage houses and they were kind of career people and they weren't quite the entrepreneurial spirit that I was.

 When I started searching around, I found the Genius Network because Joe Polish has been a friend of mine for more than 20 years and he was a brilliant marketer and I just thought this would be a good idea to be exposed to some of the people that he hangs out with and it ended up being a fantastic thing for me. So I've gotten all kinds of ideas, whether it's about marketing or sales or positioning or branding or website development, or if you want to go more into internet marketing, which I haven't done, but you know how to create funnels and get people to come through and lead generation and all this stuff that maybe doesn't get talked about at the national conferences of financial planning, but is critical if you're going to build a real business.

 So it's been something that I would say has been a really smart decision. I like to say that my three best decisions in life were marrying my wife Mimi, starting my business in 1999 and joining Genius Network.

 So anytime you can get out there and join some other groups, you get some ... And I don't mean to go in necessarily thinking you're going to get business, but to go in and get ideas to grow your business and to be a better operator of your business because so often financial planners, and I don't want to go on too much ... but I see my dad who was a doctor, he's a retired doctor and he knew nothing about business. He just knew about caring for people.

 Sometimes I see financial advisors who are kind of in that same boat, they care for people and they do great work, but they have no clue about how to grow their business or branding or niche marketing. And you need to know that in this day and age because it's much more competitive with the Vanguards, the Charles Schwabs, everyone and their brother and sister doing financial planning or robo advisors and all the changes that we're seeing on the landscape.

Bryan Sweet: I would totally agree with that. The interesting perspective that you get from talking to other people in other industries is very unique. And just in chatting and learning more about how other people apply things to their business, gives you ideas on how to take those concepts and apply it to the financial services industry.

 One of the things I would always encourage people to do is not only hang out in the financial planning circles, but reach out to other groups and you might learn something from real estate people or doctors or any group that you can then apply a different methodology or concept to your business. It's been just instrumental in me starting several new businesses and also just expanding what we're doing. So appreciate your thoughts on that.

 One of the things that obviously is a big part of a financial advising practice, and especially if you run a niche practice is marketing. Maybe you could talk a little bit about what does marketing mean to you? What emphasis do you put on it? And then maybe also talk about the importance of marketing your process versus yourself. I think maybe you can talk a little bit about your functional wealth management process.

Jim Dew : Absolutely. Really marketing to me, and I'll use Joe Polish's definition and I don't know if this is Joe's or he got it from somebody else, but Joe always says that, "Marketing is what you do to get on the phone or face to face with someone, and sales is what you do once you're on the phone or face to face with someone."

 Marketing is really the lifeblood of this business. If you could say, what's the one thing you need to do to have a successful financial advisory business, the one thing is you need to source good clients, period, end of story. We all know advisors that aren't that great, that have thriving practices and we know amazing advisors that have terrible practices as far as revenue and profitability and stuff like that. I don't mean terrible because they're still doing good work.

 I remember an advisor when I was with the firm I was first with who was one of the smartest people I ever met in the business and he could never get his business going because he didn't know anything about marketing. But boy, he knew a lot about financial planning and he cared about his people.

 You have to think about marketing as how do you get someone, and I don't just mean anyone, a right fit client on the phone or face to face. So what do you need to do that? So that's been instrumental thinking about that in my business and my life. The way we do it is, as I said, primarily through my public speaking through my book and through networking with other entrepreneurs.

 That's the other great thing about a niche is if you're in a niche, then people recognize other people that you're working with. And just because I brought this up, if you were working with pediatric oncologists, I bet they know each other. I bet the pediatric oncologists in your town know each other because it's not like a general practitioner. They probably all know each other. And if you're working with half of the ones in town, guess what they start talking, you're going to be the person that they refer into the group.

 So that's another thing about marketing is and about niche marketing. So that's how primarily we do it. I'm still trying to get better at some of the other things. I know that all kinds of opportunities exist today through the internet and through funnels and all those kinds of things that I learned about from other entrepreneurs. And so I do what works for me and what I feel comfortable with, but that doesn't mean that I'm not continually expanding.

 And then of course the challenge all of us have is compliance. We're not running a business where we can just market any way we want. So there's always that push and pull and you always want to make sure that you're doing things that are compliant.

Bryan Sweet: Yeah. The interesting thing is when you have a niche and you become known as the person to go to, the referrals come fast and furious. I would think you would be probably one that could really comment on that. I would think you would have really gotten a lot of referrals from other business owners just because you're the guy to go to that can help solve entrepreneur's issues.

Jim Dew : Yes. And just to follow, I don't know why I got on the medical theme this morning, but to follow on the theme of if someone asked me... I'll just turn the tables. If someone said, "Hey Jim, do you know a good doctor?" I would sit there and think, "Ah, I know a lot of doctors." But if someone said, "Jim, do you know a hand surgeon in Scottsdale, Arizona?" Guess what; a name pops into my head. "There's a guy I know. He's a great hand surgeon in Scottsdale, Arizona."

 So when people are thinking about referrals and they're hoping their clients are going to be talking about them and referring them, that's not how people refer business to other people. I don't refer someone to a restaurant if they say, "Hey Jim, I love Thai food. Is there a good Thai food restaurant in Scottsdale?" Okay, now something pops in my head. If they just go, "Hey, do you know a good restaurant?" That's a much harder question.

 The way people communicate, they don't communicate like, "Hey, do you have a financial advisor I could talk to." When they're talking and issues come up, you're going to pop up in their mind if you're that specialist. And the only way you're going to be that specialist is by putting a flag in the ground, changing your marketing materials, telling everyone, turning away good business for people who are not in the niche. And then you really have to focus and study on developing the skills to serve that niche because marketing is one thing, but then when people start talking to you and you actually have to deliver, that's where you have to show expertise.

 It's helped me so much in clarity because we all get a million things to look at. All kinds of CE classes we could take, online stuff, webinars and how do you decide where to spend your time? For me, it's really easy. I get something that talks about an area that doesn't apply to my clients and I don't worry about it. I see something that applies directly to my niche, I'm all over it.

 So it adds clarity to running the business and it adds clarity to how you're going to market and how you're going to grow your business, which is one of the problems. We have so many choices and so many opportunities, sometimes it can be overwhelming and then you end up just doing what you did last year.

Bryan Sweet: Yeah, that's a really great point. Having a niche actually serves as a filter to what you should or shouldn't be doing. It really simplifies it for you because there's so many shiny objects and so many things to learn. When you have that defined of a niche like you do, if it doesn't help promote that, then just don't do it. I love that thought.

 Where do you see just financial advice going in the future? How do you think advisors should think about the future if they want to remain relevant?

Jim Dew : I believe that our industry is changing like all industries. I do see friends of mine who are very good financial advisors who I think just have the blinders on. And here's the story I hear them telling me. They say, "Jim, I'm not worried about it. People care about relationships. I have great relationships with my clients so I'll always have a great business." And I question whether that's true.

 I know relationships matter and that matters a lot to me. I have a great relationship with my clients. However, take real estate for example, realtors; I'd worry if I was a realtor right now. And a realtor could say the same thing like my people love me because of the relationship I have with them and because I care and all that kind of stuff. But if someone's buying $1 million home and they're looking at a $30,000 commission to a realtor and there's an alternative way that they think they'll get the same result, that cost them 3000 bucks, I think that's going to be tough for that realtor even if they have great relationships.

 What I'm getting to is industry is changing, the world is changing, and if we want to be ahead of the curve, we want to think about how it could change. And so when I look at it, I look at, you've got the robo advisors, you've got AI technology coming in, you've got huge institutions like Vanguard and Schwab, and of course I'm an independent RIA, so I use custodians, independent custodians, but however, I have no illusions that TD Ameritrade or Fidelity wouldn't kick me to the curb if they could make more money and not have to deal with me.

 I think when I look at the way things are going, I ask myself a couple of questions. I say, "What can I do that Vanguard, Schwab, I would say Wells Fargo, Merrill, what are these big institutions ... and Biederman for that matter ... Biederman or some of the robo advisors, what are they not able or not willing to do that I can do?" Because if I can do what they're not willing or able to do that actually serves my clients and solves a problem, now I don't think I'm replaceable.

 So think about how you can be irreplaceable to a right fit client. Look, if it's all about doing a retirement projection and managing assets for a fee, I think you might be in trouble because managing assets for a fee is getting more and more commoditized. There hasn't been fee pressure yet in the financial advisor space. It's been more on the broker dealer side and the asset management side, but I think that's coming. So you're going to have to ... It doesn't mean you can't get paid that way, but you have to demonstrate value. And if the value is just a retirement projection and holding someone's hand when someone dies, I think you're going to lose some people along the way. So I would start thinking along those lines. And if you do that, you're going to be ahead.

 Because remember the other thing is Vanguard doesn't care. I say Vanguard not to be pejorative because we have Vanguard in portfolios that we manage. But what I mean is Vanguard replacing the financial advisor, Vanguard doesn't care about Jim Dew and Vanguard's not going to care about you either. And you can carve out a tremendous profitable business, but if you're doing something that Vanguard can replace you on, which I think a phone call with a CFP, a retirement projection, asset allocation, call them up when you're nervous about the market, you have to do more than that because that's the area that Vanguard is going to try to eat you up and spit you out.

 We want to be prepared so that we're ahead of the game and years later it actually works to your benefit to where other advisors who are just doing kind of what Vanguard does with a little more personal touch but a lot more expensive, you're not going to be in that boat, which means you're going to get all kinds of clients that want more than what Vanguard can provide.

Bryan Sweet: Very interesting point. I totally agree with you. I think maybe one other thought on that is, thinking outside the box or getting exposed to people outside our industry help you think a little bit differently about that. If you're always hanging around the financial groups that never change their thought process, you're always going to be thinking that same way and acting that same way.

 Some of these mastermind groups that we talked about earlier allow you to think a little differently, think out of the box, which allows you then maybe to change how you look at how you're going to work in the future and compete in a new world. So it will be remarkably different.

 I don't know if you've got any other thoughts on that, Jim.

Jim Dew : I heard an AI expert talk and someone said, "Okay, truck drivers are in trouble with AI over the future. Who else?" And the AI expert said, "Everyone could be in trouble." And they said, "Well, how can you protect yourself in your industry against AI taking your job?" And he said, "There's two things that AI won't be able to do for a long, long time. Maybe eventually they'll be able to do both of these things." And the expert said, "Things that are required; deep relationships and things that have complexity."

 So I would give advice to your listeners, to the advisors who are listening to this podcast, make sure you're doing things that require, and actually you're delivering on deep relationships and there's a complexity that would be hard for machine learning to recreate. If you do those two things and you take those two things seriously, I think you're going to have more opportunity in the next 10 years than you've had in the last 10 years.

Bryan Sweet: It's going to be an amazing next few years. A lot of consolidation, a lot of changes and those that are on the cutting edge of the right things are going to be able to take maximum advantage of it.

 As we wrap up this session, Jim, if you could maybe offer one piece of advice to other financial advisors, what would that be?

Jim Dew : I'm going to steal from Keith Cunningham in a book that I would recommend that you read called, The Road Less Stupid. Keith talks about thinking time in the book. I would encourage you to block off time every week in a quiet place with no digital interruptions so you're not checking your email, you're not looking at your phone and block that off as thinking time. I want you to think about what is it you truly want to accomplish? What do you want your business to look like? What are the challenges? What are the opportunities? But block that off and take that as serious as you would take a date night with your spouse or time with a child or whatever you would see that you would just be completely focused on.

 I think if you do that for a while, you're going to see benefits out of that. Because one thing that I learned throughout my career is I went through stages where I just worked. I didn't stop to even think about what I was doing, I just kept grinding along. And especially in today's world with things changing so quickly, I think you owe yourself some thinking time.

 So that would be the one bit of advice I would give for everyone.

Bryan Sweet: That's exceptional. And I would agree that is a great book; The Road Less Stupid by Keith Cunningham.

 What would your thoughts be of also having your staff take thinking time. Think it's beneficial?

Jim Dew : It can be. It depends on the type of people, what roles they have and also their personality. I have someone in my firm who's a fantastic part of the firm and if I went to her and I suggested thinking time, she would wonder if I needed to go on meds or something. It would just not be something that she would feel comfortable with. It would be awkward. She would see no point to it. And that's fine. You have people in your company that are like that.

 I think what I would do with my team, because we have team meetings every two weeks, is once you go through the thinking time or I'll say about my situation once I go through my thinking time and I have a concept opportunity, idea, challenge, and I think, "You know, I'd like input from my team." Then I would propose it to them and say, "Hey, why don't all of you think about this for a week or two and then come back, [inaudible 00:29:31] whatever that means." I'll even encourage them to sit in a quiet place and think about it.

 So I think it depends on personalities and people and what you want them to do. I also, because of the mastermind groups in the other areas, I can go to people who have nothing to do with my industry and say, "Hey, would you think about this for a week and let me know what you think." And when they do that, often I get answers that I never would have come up with myself in a million years. And neither would someone else who had done the financial work that I've done for 24 years just because they have no concept of what I've done the last 24 years, which can be a really great thing to have fresh eyes on the subject.

Bryan Sweet: Well excellent thoughts today, Jim, and I really want to thank you for taking time out and sharing with our audience today. I would consider you probably the top guy in niche marketing. You've really done an amazing job on the advisor to the entrepreneur concept. Appreciate your time and thoughts and information today and wish you well, and have a great Labor Day weekend.

 For all those in the audience, thanks for listening and we'll see you on the next episode of the Ultimate Advisor podcast.

Jim Dew : Thank you Bryan. It's been my pleasure.

Draye Redfern: Hey there. Draye Redfern here and before you go we just wanted to say thank you for listening to this week's episode of the Ultimate Advisor podcast.

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