SUMMARY: 

 

In this episode, I chatted with Christy Herselman from The Chat. We spoke about the changing gender landscape, and what this means for both our children, and for us parents as we all try to navigate and understand this phenomenon that's unfolding so quickly. 

We spoke about the massive rise in transgender and nonbinary teens, and touched on how the world got here.

I think what I loved the most from this conversation is the way Christy helps us parents think about this topic. She doesn’t come in with all the answers, but rather helps us understand this changing landscape, acknowledging the many complexities on this subject. This conversation was another reminder to me as a parent of the fundamental job we have to just love our children, provide them with the safe space that they need, and to have these sorts of conversations with them.

Christy is a speaker, teacher, researcher, author, wife, and mom to 3 kids with a passion to help cultivate deep connections, facilitate healthy dialogue helping raise a generation who are secure in who they are and where they are going.

8 years ago Christy founded a movement called The Chat. The heart of THE CHAT is to empower parents, organizations and communities to confidently dialogue around big topics like sexuality, digital healthy and social media in a natural, open manner that creates safe spaces for ongoing conversations. 

She also equips tweens and teens to make healthy, future-focused decisions around their sexuality and identity and does workshops at schools, helping children and teens become healthy, wise digital users.

Resources mentioned during the conversation: 

• Upcoming Zoom for parents with Christy on Sex & Gender: Understanding the Conversation. 24th November. 
• 5-Part Video Series for schools: The Gender Project: A 5 Part Video Series for schools, to help orientate and prepare South African teens for the Gender Conversation.
• Book: Irreversible Damage by Abigail Shrier
• Book: Untangled - Guiding Teenage Girls Through the Seven Transitions into Adulthood by Lisa Damour
• Book: The Emotional Lives of Teenagers: Raising Connected, Capable and Compassionate Adolescents by Lisa Damour
• Podcast: Ask Lisa - The Psychology of Parenting. [Podcast]

To connect with Christy from The Chat:
 
Website: www.thechat.co.za
Email: info@thechat.co.za
Facebook:  thechatdurban

Thank you so much for listening! Please like and subscribe to join our community. If you enjoyed the podcast, consider leaving a review and sharing the episode with your network.

Join the Future Smart Parent Community:
Instagram | Newsletter signup | Facebook Group

 

 

 

 

 

TRANSCRIPT

Welcome Christy Thank you so much for joining us today. I am super excited to share your research and your wisdom on the topic of sort of gender and the gender landscape I think it's something that us parents. Well I speak for myself. Quite overwhelming. We don't know where to start. Ah, it's it's not something that's almost familiar to us and it's it's such a big thing and in our kids and our teenagers lives so welcome and thank you for for joining us and.

01:33.10
Christy
Thank you for having me.

01:37.87
judefoulston
Thank you and thanks for the work that you're doing goodness and okay so I'm gonna jump right In. Um, and I'm looking at my notes to the side. So I'm gonna put them right here in front of me. Okay, so there's so many words, there's so many ah Topics. Ah sayings What is can you just tell us the changing Gender Landscape. It's ah it's a big thing but where do we even start to understand what this is.

02:12.35
Christy
It's a very good question be mostly because it's it's honestly taken us by storm. It's happened so fast things have changed so quickly something that has kind of been set for thousands of years is now suddenly being deconstructed rethought renamed and and as you said there's. Even a whole new vocabulary in language. So it's something that really, um, all of us I mean our teenagers are getting to grips with it more than us as parents but all of us are actually trying to understand. So um I think what? what is the most. What's kind of thrown us off the most is there has been this radical shift. Until probably I would say ten years ago even um maybe around kind of 2008 2010 things started to really change and from from then until now there has been this radical shift from gender is binary. Um. Men or men women or woman. It's pretty simple to know Gender is Fluid. Gender is not biological. It is psychological gender is something that is um, part is part of our inner being not necessarily um, our physical anatomy.

03:27.41
Christy
And so this this is what has happened is there's been this There's been this huge shift. There's been this huge um, it's and it's actually comes down to worldviews. It comes down to um, you know most and and actually it's quite interesting when you look at the worldviews because the 2 worldviews at play are what we call a binary worldview. And then what we call a dualistic worldview. So the binary worldview is if I'm biologically female then I'm a woman that's that's what it is and and honestly this this view is still held by the vast majority of the world. Um, but what? what is gain what has gained so much traction and and what is.

04:05.44
Christy
The kind of the loudest voice. The um, the most predominant voice especially on social media and with teenagers right now is is based in something called the dualistic worldview where our bodies. Um and our um, our person are two separate things.

04:22.63
Christy
And your gender resides in your person not in your body. Um, so those are kind of and so this is the predominant worldview behind the transgender movement behind the um, the the thoughts the view that gender is is something. It's an identity with. In us that sometimes is out of congruency with our biological body. Um, so that that's kind of what's happened.

04:49.15
judefoulston
And so what I what I don't understand is or find difficult to understand is where has this come from because obviously this is not a new thing. We we haven't we we don't have have people who just in the last ten years like this. Increase of of transgender or or non-binary humans. How has it unfolded and unfolded so rapidly and is it social media is it just kind of. A new understanding like what what are your thoughts on on that.

05:27.25
Christy
Yeah, that's such a good question and that is the that is the question right now is how did this happen so fast. How did something that we believed for so long. Just get just Unravel so quickly and something so completely different take its place. So.

05:43.70
Christy
Just to give you um so many statistics but just to give you um, one statistic in the Uk between 22008 and 2018 there was a 3000 sorry a four thousand and thirty three percent increase um in specifically teenagers seeking transgender treatment.

06:02.84
Christy
And so this is the key. The key is that the massive jump has been in 1 demographic um, and and this is what is interesting. So so historically the demographic with the most transgender people was middle aged men so these would be people who ah who were.

06:22.84
Christy
Who had gender Dysphoria for those of you who are not familiar with the term gender Dysphoria that is a deep psychological pain coming from this feeling that my body and the gender I believe I am do not match up. 

06:42.38
Christy
Ah, psychological term and it's a diagnosable condition. so so um historically men would would kind of have this from very early on because gender dysphoria starts very early about the age of 5 and persists through someone's life.

06:59.60
Christy
And then these these men would then by the time they reach middle age would be cross-dressing Drag Queens Um, you know, but predominantly that one demographic we've seen no increase in that demographic over these last few years. Nothing it stayed the same the massive massive jump has been in our teens.

07:18.00
Christy
Um, and predominantly upper middleddle class teens So from more wealthy homes and predominantly good and predominantly girls the vast majority. Although we do have many transgender boys.

07:31.32
Christy
The vast majority is girls so um, Abigail Shire wrote this book called irreversible damage and she was one of the people saying kind of why this demographic why these girls and you've already said some of the reasons but some of the reasons that that um researchers and and experts are putting forward is the first one is that this. Generation is in deep psychological pain and some of the other statistics we're seeing is that we're seeing we've seen almost like a 200% increase in self-harm over the last 5 to 10 years in preteen girls. So we seeing lots of self- harmm. We're seeing lots of anxiety we're seeing lots of depression.

08:09.80
Christy
Um, lots of body shame those kinds of things. So this group of people these these preteen girls um are in pain they suffering and so with with the access of social media. Um, and and the transgender movement. Um, it's often that that these girls.

08:29.81
Christy
Have ah developed what is now called Sudden Onset Gender Dysphoria where they suddenly feel uncomfortable in their bodies. They never have before um and and so these girls then asked are kind of um as you say questioning. Um.

08:47.99
Christy
Choosing to be non-binary choosing to be um, trance almost because they feel like this must be what's wrong with me if I feel this uncomfortable in my body.

08:55.72
judefoulston
I think I read that book I was trying to remember the name and the author it was the book saying and because of how social media is playing such a big role in it at these these girls in Particular. Ah, kind of seeing this perfect landscape out there of how they are supposed to be as as girls and they can't almost get there and they can't have this perfect life and so they almost um. Just escaping that and saying okay well that's not me so I must be something else is is that is that the gist of it. Okay.

09:35.34
Christy
Yes, well that that is one of the that is ah 1 Abigail Shara does mention that in her book and others have is this thing is if now if I don't meet the the criteria of the perfect girl.

09:50.37
Christy
Then there must be then then I can't be a girl then then and and and also there's there's so much to this also because a lot of this generation of girls have grown up under helicopter and snowplow parents. They are not used to going through hard things and so when they get to what is actually the.

10:09.66
Christy
Hardest time of your life I honestly believe 12 to 15 must be the hardest time of life. Um, they don't have the resilience in the grid to just work through not I mean most 12 to 14 year olds go through times where they don't like their body where they feel like there's something wrong with them where they feel like they don't belong.

10:28.60
Christy
Where they wish they were someone else. Um, and now this alternative is being presented to them and saying well maybe it's because of this maybe you should do this and this is just this is one of the reasons that's being put forward specifically for this demographic. Um.

10:44.15
Christy
And then there are also other reasons you know that that are being put forward. The fact that the world is a lot more accepting now the world is a lot more um is a lot more open and not a lot more diverse than it was.

10:58.77
Christy
Um, but I think there is a lot of concern across the board from Transgender clinics to um, you know the transgender community themselves to this massive explosion of transgender identification. Very very early in life because it is such a big decision.

11:17.63
Christy
For these children. Um, and I'm sure you've seen specifically in the yeah Uk and in in the states Now they they have what they call affirmative care where they're they're allowing, um, you know Puberty blockers ah testosterone injections Mastectomies hysterectomies for teenagers. And so a lot of there's a lot of alarm bells going off even amongst? Um, you know the transgender community and specifically um, those who who just believe that a life altertering decision like this should not be made when you are this young? Um, but there are reasons why going through so Much. Um.

11:51.38
judefoulston
And going through so much.

11:57.21
Christy
Not I mean I look back at when I was 14 I'm very grateful I didn't make any life altering decisions. You know I was going through a lot. Ah my parents were getting divorced. Um I had a very low self-esteem I often felt like I didn't belong felt misunderstood and so it's not a good time to make love altering decisions.

12:17.10
Christy
But then there kind of is this other school of thought that says um if a child is trance and you don't allow them to begin a transitioning process. It's very bad for their mental health So that's the other side of the argument.

12:31.63
Christy
Um, of no but we should allow our children. Um, because ah you know there's um, obviously concerns about anxiety and depression and suicide and things like that if children are feeling like they are not living as they believe they should. So you can imagine so there are so many strong arguments for both sides of this. Um, but obviously as a parent um a very a very concerning thing. Um, you know there's a guy called Scott Nugent he's a transgender man.

13:05.69
Christy
In his 30 Ah sorry he's about 43 now and he has an organization called tray voices which basically the his organization is trying to put a stop to the medical transitioning of teenagers.

13:20.20
Christy
Um, because he as a 42 year old 43 year old man who's been through medical transitioning is saying that it is such a highly experimental surgery. It's such a it's such a hard you're you're choosing a very hard path when you're choosing this for your for the rest of your life.

13:38.46
Christy
Um, and do we ah is it okay to let our children make that decision. You know he talks about the fact that when we choose medical transitioning you cutting your lifespan by 12 years in your Sixty s you're going to have osteoporosis and possibly be in a wheelchair or using a cane heart issues lung issues. It's going to cost about. Ah he's american so he talks about the fact that it's going to cost about a one point five million dollars over the course of your life. You are going to have ongoing medical and psychological care. You know and is this something that a twelve year old is ready to decide.

14:14.94
Christy
Is the question that he's asking.

14:15.74
judefoulston
and and I mean we know we know from sort of neuroscience that the brain is nowhere close to being fully debvebbed the the decision-making part of the brain. It's it's just such a big thing for ah. As as the parents to get our heads around and learn of course the kids and I mean I know I've got a 12 year old daughter. Um and just trying to navigate the conversations that we're starting to have with her and just in general stuff just you know nothing. Nothing big like this yet and it's it's overwhelming. Um, so I mean where do us as parents even begin us? Yeah I suppose it's with understanding but I mean as you've just shown this these these.

15:09.80
judefoulston
Opposite views. Ah, where do we? Where do we begin.

15:12.80
Christy
I Think it's such a good question and and again different different families, different speakers different people will have different ideas but but my my view just kind of from my research from my conversations is don't start too soon.

15:32.45
Christy
Um, let our boys be boys and our girls be girls as they grow up I'm not a fan or an advocate of gender neutral parenting I think um, you know, just calling boys boys calling girls girls and even Scott Nugent says this he he's that guy that I just spoke about. He says his um his take on. What he what he's doing with his own sons is he's saying to his sons you're going to be boys until you're 18 and then if after that you decide that you want to transition I will call you whatever you want as an adult. Um, so I think it's important that we we just keep things simple.

16:11.93
Christy
As they grow up boys girls. Um because the vast majority of us will be binary and the statistics around. Um and this is a very new field of science. So so data is coming out and changing all the time but it's something like.

16:28.92
Christy
80 to 90% of teenagers who question their gender or go through some kind of um, kind of gender discomfort or or they become trans will revert to their birth gender by the time they're adults. It's a vast majority. so so I think

16:46.98
Christy
Um, just remembering that the vast majority of us if we are born female. We will grow up and we will live as women and so keep it simple when they're small, um affirm their bodies as good affirm gender as good. Make sure our girls know that anything is possible for them.

16:50.36
judefoulston
And I have open.

17:03.91
Christy
That it's not a handicap to be a female and then on the other side. Um, ah actually I've developed a bit of a frustration. Um on behalf of the boys that I spend a lot I spend a lot of time um with a group of 15 year old boys that ah that I teach once a week about how badly they treated it by girls.

17:23.80
Christy
And how toxic and Masculinity seem to now be married together that to be masculine is toxic. So let's affirm. Our boy's masculinity Masculinity is wonderful, Healthy masculinity Protectiveness Strength courage innovation like let's affirm.

17:42.21
Christy
Gender as a good thing and so I think that's the first thing is when they when they're young, keep it simple and then answer their questions. You know this will as you say this is changing very fast. It's around us when my son was about 9 He came to me and asked me what a gender nonconformist was because he had seen an interview.

18:01.92
Christy
On a show on kids Youtube called hiho kids and so I did I answered his question and you don't and all of us have a bias right? We have a bias one way the other so we try not to bring in our bias we try and answer factually. This is what um this person and believes this is how they're living and we always.

18:21.63
Christy
Speak about people with compassion and love whether you whatever your worldview is because you're going to have a worldview right? We all do but that we that we are loving um around all people. The other thing is obviously to avoid stereotypes with our kids because a lot of the time and and you said it earlier is if we haven't.

18:40.93
Christy
Girl who does not want um to make Tiktok videos with her friend doing little dances but would rather be gaming with with the boys if we if we go oh my gosh. She must be trance or she must be gay that's unhelpful. She just likes gaming that.

18:59.60
Christy
Youre like Ammy you know, let let our children like what they' like. Let them have freedom to express themselves you know and so stereotypes I mean the the traditional ones are boys who are dancers girls who like ragby you know those kinds of things but but just allow our children to express themselves because it's because ah, as. As great as this new generation is and as much as they want to pull labels and boxes apart. They do label themselves and each other very quickly. Um, and.

19:29.34
judefoulston
I Want to go back. Sorry I Want to go back to to when you were saying and to so to kind of avoid the amount of the words Ra to avoid the gender neutral parenting because it comes into this. Um you. As I understand you're not saying. Ah it's It's not not giving boys a doll to play with because because a boy will grow up to be ah maybe a parent or a loving uncle or a nurturer so we're not saying you don't give your your boys dolls.

20:04.66
judefoulston
Or is that what you're saying because because I do get not confused I'm always you know and as you say if my daughter wants to go gaming with a group of boys because she loves gaming because she loves being around them I'll celebrate that but we don't look at that as any different.

20:24.40
judefoulston
To you know it's It's just her so socializing. Um, yeah, so can you just help me kind of unpack that a little bit.

20:28.37
Christy
Um, yes, sorry I should have clarified So what? gender neutral parenting is this is kind of part of the transgender movement is when a child is Born. You don't. Use male or female pronouns to talk to them or about them. So This is a school of thought where we don't call if if a child is born with a penis. We don't call him a boy or if a girl is born in a female Body. We don't call her a girl So This is part This is kind of one still.

21:02.45
Christy
Quite radical school of thought but there are a lot. We seeing our celebrities I think Celine Dion came out with a gender neutral um, you know so range of clothes. We we seeing celebrities do it from time to time. Um, but it's this idea of not putting.

21:20.40
Christy
Gender onto a child until they decide what they want to be um I believe this is confusing for children. Um, it's not something but but again you need to do? What's right for your family but I think just keep it simple late boys be boys and girls be girls.

21:38.27
Christy
And then if you see an incongruency in your child then you know you can you can work with that and and um, but the vast majority as I said um, earlier is the vast majority of teenagers or you know early late teens early 20 people who are identifying as Childs. Don't have gender Dysphoria at all. Um, you know the the diagnosed psychological condition. It is a word we hear thrown around a lot. But um, it's kind of more something that's happened later in life and come out of a different set of circumstances. Yeah, so that's what Ah, That's what I mean by that and um.

22:15.82
Christy
Yeah, so I definitely um, again with the avoiding stereotypes. Let our children choose their toys and and you know choose the sports they like the games they like um without boxing them into girls do those boys do that? Um I think that's that's quite helpful.

22:33.34
Christy
Um, and then the other thing that I think is important is talk about this issue with your children because as they especially as they grow and as they start to become exposed to social media because it is all over social media and as art Tell Teenagers Social media influences are.

22:52.37
Christy
Called influences because they are there to influence you they are not called social media fact givers they have a bias they have ah an agenda they they have ah they have a purpose for what they're doing and whatever their purpose is we need to.

23:07.18
Christy
We need to be making sure that in our homes we are having conversations that balance out some of the stuff that they're hearing around it and also create ah create a safe environment where they can make sense of it think critically and come to their own conclusions because a lot of.

23:25.79
Christy
Ah, you know a lot of these girls um in these studies that that chose to become trance did it after increased social media exposure or did it after their friends did because this is the other thing is that girls are such pack animals. We do things we do things together. Um, but.

23:44.17
Christy
So so I would say lots of space for connection and conversation in your homes and limiting social media time for your children limiting the amount of time those other external voices.

24:00.62
Christy
Are shaping the neuropathways an alarming statistic I read not so long ago was that the average teenager spends between six and nine hours a day online but the most alarming part for me was that the average teenager spends less than 45 minutes a day with their family so are they getting good healthy balanced.

24:19.46
Christy
Information from people who love them and are invested in their future to make their decisions. You know we want. Ah we want our homes to be loving safe places where even when our children make choices that may not line up with our worldviews or our values or whatever they still feel unconditionally loved they still know.

24:39.44
Christy
That we are there for them. We love them. You know I Um I read ah a great article the other day of of that There was basically what to do if your child comes out to you and it was called um I love you and then there was a but beauty.

24:58.50
Christy
And it was crossed out. So if your child comes and says um, something's whatever, whatever it is and and we're talking about transgender. So your child says. Um, um I ah feel like I'm transnce. You just throw your arms around them and you say I love you. That's your starting point. That's always your starting point.

25:16.79
Christy
Not I love you but this is not right I love you but you can't do this and of course you do want to have those conversations you want you do want to balance that information that they're getting help them make a good future focused choice. Ah, but like um, you know I was listening to one.

25:36.29
Christy
1 man interviewed he was a single dad and he said the last thing we want is to lose our kids to the internet and this happens this happens so often if a child is struggling with their gender identity and their parents come hot and hard and and like.

25:56.90
Christy
Bring shame bring judgment that child then goes and finds an online family who will affirm them and there's plenty plenty plenty plenty of people who they will find Lard who will not give them balanced information who will not love them and and challenge them and you know.

26:13.66
Christy
Help them make hard choices. They will just affirm a firm firm Affirm affirm. Um, so we don't want that we want to make sure that our kids in our homes feel loved and but at the same time that we protect them and that they and that they can process that.

26:28.36
judefoulston
For me for me that's been the biggest ah take one of the biggest takeouts from this conversation is is the fact that as parents, it's our role to bring that balance to our kids and I've ah. In our family. We've always I suppose ah been to being so aware of affirming and accepting and ah you know teaching our kids to to be accepting and that there are different ways and ah that sort of thing but perhaps what we haven't. Getting right? Maybe that's too harsh but what we can focus on is actually just having those conversations and reminding them of of who they are and affirming them. Um, in this this big landscape that they find themselves for me. That's that's been. A great takeout and.

27:23.54
Christy
Um, yeah I think that's so important because you know the the transgender movements and and the the way that this generation has embraced. It is based in love and acceptance.

27:38.31
Christy
It's based in. We want everyone to have a place. We want everyone to to feel like they are loved and honored and belong and that is so so good. Ah, but at the same time. What does love look like does love is not always affirming. Love is also sometimes.

27:57.40
Christy
Telling a child. Okay, here's the hard truth of if you choose that this is what it looks like and um, here's some of the medical stuff here's some of okay and and then thinking globally thinking. Okay, what what is happening you know when when we decide on a.

28:14.70
Christy
Um, specific worldview. What is how does that work out in the world. You know, um, a good one to talk about with your kids is sports. You know the transgender movement's playing out in sports at the moment and it's really interesting. Um to see you know and and it's great to to help them think globally think think.

28:33.17
Christy
What about rights and um, a lot of the conversation at the moment is I don't know if you saw earlier this year Leah Thomas who was a swimmer in the us um, transitioned male to female and then she won you know she she creamed the competition and and um.

28:51.20
Christy
A couple days later her her her medal was taken away and given to the second place person and fena the world governing body of swimming made a ruling that um, female to male trans transgender people could not compete in female races. And so there's a lot of stuff to think about and and you know there's two sides to that as well. Like Leah Thomas is a transgender person who and when you when you listen to her speak she says I'm a woman. Ah I've always been a woman I just want to be my authentic self but at the same time. Those are her rights. But then what about the rights of.

29:25.79
Christy
The the biological females you have shorter legs haven't had um male puberty you know all of those things so these are really really good conversations to have with our kids and then the other one as well. That's happening right? now is pronouns I don't know if you've seen.

29:43.28
Christy
A lot of the conversations. A lot of teenagers will have their chosen pronouns on their Instagram profile and a school in cape town recently. Ah introduced pronoun badges. So whatever your chosen pronouns were were you wore those badges so people knew what to call you and this is a big.

30:02.85
Christy
Again, rooted in love rooted in. Let's make transgender people feel included belonging all of those things but but kind of what also happened there was those who refused to wear them were then um, were then targeted marginalized there. We go.

30:20.60
Christy
So we it on the in the way of not marginalizing 1 people group we marginalize another people group and so it's so tricky and these are things we need to we need to hash out in in good conversation and and this is why I've I've created my my course for for schools is let's talk about these things. What does it look like is it.

30:40.50
Christy
Is it my right to choose my pronouns. Ah but yes, but is it also not your right? If for example, maybe according to your religious beliefs. You don't believe it's right, do you have to call me those you know there was a case of. Of 2 boys in America recently being charged with sexual harassment for not not agreeing to use another child's chosen pronouns. So there's lots of complexity to what's going on and I think that things if we really need to talk to our kids about get them thinking you know this is a very um this is a very.

31:09.53
judefoulston
So many complexities.

31:19.27
Christy
You can have big conversations with this generation. You know you really can they really do want to talk about things they really? they're probably way more independent thinking than we were which is great which is great. Ah, but so one of the things is is to have those conversations um with your kids you know.

31:37.27
Christy
Um, and then what I'll often say. Ah so two things I think just in terms of parenting as well is um, love and compassion for other people so be standing firmly in your worldview and knowing that if.

31:53.57
Christy
You know this is also where things get quite tricky is if someone holds a ah binary worldview So that's the worldview where my biology determines my gender and they can be accused of being bigoted Hateful homophobic all of those things but but if that is your value.

32:11.58
Christy
Um, and it is the values of many families, especially those families with religious roots and um faith roots. Ah to to say to your child. No, that's not, You're not homophobic unless you are hateful towards people you know so that we we allow children of whatever their worldviews to to be.

32:30.49
Christy
But in their worldviews but always to be loving and compassionate to those around them who have different views. You know we don't have to. We don't have to agree with everything our friends say and do to be compassionate to be kind to be inclusive. Um, you know that would mean that I can if if I For example, if if I am a christian.

32:50.80
Christy
And and you're a muslim. We can't be friends. That's just nonsense. You know it's nonsense and but but at the moment that's how this conversation feels so my hope is that we can get past that where we can have different worldviews around gender but still you know bridge those things and and I think it's.

33:09.28
Christy
Also social media that has made this conversation so polarized ah because social media is not about healthy debate right? Social media is about I'm right and you stupid that's kind of yeah.

33:15.26
judefoulston
Um, no yeah, you know and it's so heightened that that you're almost scared to jump into a conversation Because. You're going to be slammed down and shut down and called terrible things because you've got alternative views. It is really and I suppose that's that's part of it is is helping and and teaching our kids how to have these these conversations.

33:44.26
judefoulston
You know where you're aware of your biases and you are aware that other people have different worldviews and and that you can learn from things that you can unlearn certain things gosh Yeah, it's no wonder we're all quite overwhelmed. There's quite a bit to do.

33:58.10
Christy
Um, on a and I think another thing just in that vein of of love is to remember that if if I do hold a binary worldview and my my gender is very clear to me I'm a Cis gender I'd be married for 4 for 19 years You know I've never suffered with any kind of gender incongruency that to to treat people who may have a different view very very graciously because it's not like we are agreeing on I eat meat and you're a vegan you know it's not It's.

34:31.96
Christy
It's not that it is someone's identity. Do you know what? I mean it's a big deal. It's a big deal and we might not agree on these things but we need to treat each other with dignity and respect because for that person. It is a big deal. It's transgender is not just an issue. It's not just ah, a movement. Ah. Ah, whatever it is an identity and we really need to be. We need to be very careful with our words with the way we speak to people about people. Ah because I think that's also why it's such ah such a um, scary space Sometimes like you say. Ah, never comments on anything on social media I Just I Just never do. It's unless it's like your new puppy is very cute or something like that. But I just like I don't even go there. It's just but yeah, so to just be encourage encourage people our children to live by their values live by their worldviews.

35:28.88
Christy
But to be gentle, kind and loving towards people around them and then I think just lastly, just in terms of parenting is I always and I know you you also also your thing is I try and I try and teach my children to make future focus choices.

35:46.11
Christy
To make and you know there's this amazing quote and it's actually from humans of New York which is a photography thing that do you know humans of New York and and I have the book and there's this picture of this girl sitting in a subway station and she says um, you know people always say be truth to yourself, but that's misleading because there's 2 selves.

36:05.75
Christy
There's your short term self and there's your long-term self and if you only treat to your short-term self your long-term self will slowly start to decay and and so I think this is important because our children are growing up in a generation that says follow your heart if it feels good. It must be right? Yolo.

36:24.74
Christy
Regret nothing. Try everything but I say to teenagers your heart is a terrible compass. It really really is because our hearts are such mixed bags of like good stuff some not so good stuff. So I say to my kids and especially at 15 So I always.

36:34.00
judefoulston
Um, yeah, especially at 15.

36:44.80
Christy
Say to them now is not the time for big decisions. You know I want you to have the love the care the support that you need in this time. Whatever you're going through whether it is gender questioning whether it is you know you you failing.

37:02.33
Christy
At academics and you hate school because you're just not an academic or or you're being bullied like whatever the issue is I want people to be loved and cared for and are teenagers but I always say to them just just hang on a minute just take a breath you know, um, live.

37:21.46
Christy
Live now in a way that your future self will thank you for you know? um and you know Scott Nugent says he says you know we never want to be called and the parents who didn't love and support our kids and but also at the same time we don't want to be the parent with the 25 year old kid.

37:40.51
Christy
Turns around and says to us. Why did you let me do that I was a 12 year old kid or a 14 year old kid you were the adults you were the adults you know, um and you just let me do this. You knew that I was just a child and you knew I was going through stuff. Why did you let me do it so it's this hard balance. You know.

37:59.75
Christy
Um, he talks Scott Nugen talks about the fact that um children can't see around corners yet and I think it's such a great analogy is is children are very much focused on their presence and teens on their presence. They can't actually see long-term consequences so he says you can't see around corners and as you grow corners. Even out and you can see down the road when I do this this is where it's going and so that's why and it's about the prefrontal cortex right? Like you said earlier only fully developed when you're 26 So as you get towards that that landmark Brain development.

38:35.58
Christy
and and I've read amazing research as well. That says you only truly know who you are in your late 20 s which is amazing. Um, and we're forced to choose our career when we're 18 and you know you choose like all of these things and um and so I think our role as parents is is to help our children hold.

 

38:53.57
Christy
Face and and feel protected but at the same time be their prefrontal cortex for them. Um, while they grow. Yeah, um.

38:58.83
judefoulston
And to parents I mean I think that's I mean that's a whole different conversation but it it is really finding that balance of not being their best friends of being their parent. They they've got enough best friends as we know they've probably got 10000 online friends and and and a handful of parents. Um, ah yeah, it. It really is something that we I think as parents need to to remember like we can be the hard parents and we can yeah help them see around those corners when when necessary. Um.

39:33.10
Christy
Um, yeah, and that comes with healthy conversation right? Not just you are not going to do this because it's wrong that comes with understanding the space understanding the science doing some good research.

39:46.20
Christy
And allowing your children to to express what they feel and to be that that you know that safe place where they can process it all.

39:54.80
judefoulston
Well I suppose and and it goes back to what you're saying about all the influences on social media. You know as parents need to bring the balance and and bring that the the balanced influence I suppose and Christy. Yeah.

40:00.87
Christy
Um, um, yeah, um, and the good news is kids do Care. No I's just going to say the good news is kids do care what their parents think sometimes we don't think so But. You know? Ah, um, there's a psychologist Nisa demour who I follow who I I Absolutely love and she always says it doesn't seem like it but your kids do care what you think so but they can only hear what you think if you talk to them so comes back to connection.

40:28.70
judefoulston
Yeah, yeah, and it might not look I suppose it might not look exactly what you wanted to to look like of like an engaged teenager sitting around the table going. Yes Mom Yes dad like.

40:42.62
judefoulston
I mean often that'll be the case in our house. It'll be like we'll have a conversation and like the next day my guy will come and say oh mom I'm sorry I did that actually you were right? I'm not ready. You did listen. Thank you? But thanks boy yeah, just like us as adults and so Christy you mentioned.

41:01.82
judefoulston
That you had the the course for for teenagers that you do at schools correct What resources do you have for parents. Ah yeah.

41:15.14
Christy
Okay, yeah, so yeah, so the course is something we launching next year and it's a ah far part video based course for forhar schools that ahlo teachers or whatever can run um and that's just kind of to get conversations going in schools.

41:30.43
Christy
On the twenty fourth of November I'm not sure when we are recording when when we're airing this podcast but I'm doing ah a Zoom kind of to equip parents around this and I do those from time to time I do zoom chat like this around topics like gender sexuality pornography social media. All the big things that I talk about.

41:49.87
Christy
Um, so I've try and do one of those a term and then um, a couple of resources that I have found really helpful just in my own parenting and in this issue I spoke about Abigail Shi's book irreversible damage. That's just quite a. It's quite a I mean it is it isn't it's it's not written by. So.

42:08.28
Christy
It's written by a journalist just it's kind of more an investigative piece around why these girls so just interesting stuff and then there's another book just if you want to understand the different worldviews and things around gender. There's a book by Nancy Pearcy called love thy body just around this. The.

42:26.83
Christy
Around around the body and the 2 different views and all of that stuff and then one of my favorite resources and I've spoken about her already is a psychologist author called Lisa Demore she wrote probably her most famous book has been um, untangled getting your daughter through the yeah through this.

42:46.57
Christy
6 stages of adolescence I think it is and then she's just written a book that I've ordered called the emotional life of teens which I am super excited about so not necessarily specifically on gender but she talks into.

43:01.50
Christy
Those and other issues that our children are facing. She also has a podcast called the psychology of parenting which I highly recommend. It's one of those ones that's 20 minutes you can listen to it on the way to fetch your kids from school and she'll say like should I let my kid drink at home. You know those kinds of things so those are just I mean there's so many but a couple that's.

43:13.59
judefoulston
Um, awesome. Okay, yeah, brilliant. Okay, thank you I'll link to those and in the in the show notes. So thanks for those suggestions and.

43:30.24
judefoulston
This has been a really amazing conversation. Um, and I'm hoping the first of many. Um so thank you so much for for joining us today and just for the work that you're doing and and I suppose.

43:45.70
judefoulston
Let's end it off on on this last question that I have and that is what gives you hope about this this generation this this younger generation.

43:57.61
Christy
That is such a good question and such a tough question and I almost feel bad for this generation because we've handed them such a broken mess. Ah on all levels. You know it, you know I can't even go there. But anyway so a couple things.

44:14.47
Christy
That make that make me hopeful is that and I said a bit of it before is they not afraid to challenge and ask questions. Um and and to come to their own conclusions I love that you know we were especially in South Africa we grew up with just do as you're told because I said so.

44:33.72
Christy
Um, and you know I Love the fact that I have very lively debates um with the teenagers that I spend time with that they that they aren't pushovers. You know you can they they're pretty they they are much more globally minded than we ever were you know they are.

44:49.81
Christy
As I said the hallmark of this generation is love which is amazing. You know our generation often would choose um the issue over the person but this generation chooses the person over the issue which is such a great. Such a great thing. They really personalize things for us and um, yeah, and and so there's lots that this.

45:09.50
Christy
There's a lot that this generation has to struggle with but I think um, just a couple of the things that those 2 things is that they want real. Um they they don't want fake and they don't want just because because you said so or someone said so um, they prioritize people.

45:27.80
Christy
And they do. They are really kind of even even with social media. You know it's quite funny. We got this generation of of late twenty early Twenty yeah with their flip phones and they knock here 21 10 s going like social media I got no time for that and I'm like yes you guys are amazing like just.

45:33.46
judefoulston
It's yeah so ironic isn't it.

45:44.78
Christy
Being themselves so authenticity. It's just so beautiful to watch I Love that about this generation.

45:49.71
judefoulston
And and I think it's something that us parents need to be reminded of because so often we focus on the negative and the oh you've got your head in social media and we forgot we forget to see as they're developing as well. I mean as you say there's such a new, a new thing that we're all learning to deal with. That Um, yeah I think there's so much positive that we can focus on in this generation and we need as parents we need to be reminded of that. Ah.

46:17.23
Christy
Yeah, for sure for sure. There's so much positive and it is very easy to and to parents out of fear of like oh my gosh. This is all the bad stuff but actually to look at what is in our kids because they are.

46:32.95
Christy
You know I mean I always say to parents one of the things we just gotta let our kids do is get bored because when they get bored. They get creative and this this generation needs to be super creative to to fix the mess. We've given them and to create like a beautiful sustainable future. You know? And yeah, there's um, exciting things happening you know, um.

46:52.20
Christy
Yeah I Love teenagers they are the bomb.

46:56.83
judefoulston
Ah, well as I as I as I head into those teenage years I'm very glad to hear that exactly exactly it's awesome.

47:01.40
Christy
Ah, embrace it embrace it. They are fun and you know what they challenge you so much and you actually have to face your own stuff your your own prejudice your own stuff. You've believed forever because that's you know.

47:16.89
Christy
And they really get you thinking they they don't keep quiet because um yeah I mean obviously we teach all those good things like respects and all of those good things but but it is lovely to have you know they've become like these these people with great ideas and.

47:32.10
Christy
Um, different opinions to yours and ah, they're just wonderful. They're really great.

47:37.26
judefoulston
Ah, um, that's a ready cool way to end off this conversation. So thank you? And yeah, thank you, Thank you? good.

47:46.14
Christy
It's an absolute pleasure. Thanks for having me.